The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full list

User avatar
JimmyJazz
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1293
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:28 am
Location: Arizona

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by JimmyJazz » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:07 am

If it's any compensation, Moonbeam, I'm a big fan of both Roxy Music and Eurythmics, but I ultimately put them in my "bubbling under" list. In the case of Roxy, I opted for Eno as a solo act instead, as I had a rule of including individuals only one time (same thing with Lou Reed, John Lennon, ect.) Maybe next time I'll include them!

PS I read your RYM review of Oasis's Morning Glory. I thought it was hilarious, and while I hold some of their musical talents in a higher regard than you do, the majority of what you said rang so true for me.

User avatar
Moonbeam
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1841
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:40 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Moonbeam » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:10 am

luvulongTIM wrote:I've never been to the UK either, wanted to go though but I'd still prefer to visit Australia yet I'd much rather listen to nothing but UK acts over American bands on any day. It's the best region for music and even when they go through a dry spell (ie synth pop, late 00s-10s neo soul pop, boy bands) they still manage to pull themselves out of it and turn out the best music on the planet.
That is the HIGHLIGHT of British music! :o

User avatar
Blanco
Rust Never Sleeps
Posts: 693
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:25 am
Location: Mexico City
Contact:

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Blanco » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:13 am

Nassim wrote:
Brad wrote:I'm surprised at Zappa so low (#252). I assumed there were some freaks on these boards that would help his cause. (I mean "freaks" in a positive sense, of course)
He and Beefheart were the last AM top 100 members to receive their first vote (in Blanco's ballot).
:D :music-listening: :music-guitarred: :happy-partydance:

User avatar
JimmyJazz
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1293
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:28 am
Location: Arizona

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by JimmyJazz » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:19 am

Part of me now regrets placing Zappa and Beefheart so low on my list. I was exposed to their amazing music through my dad actually, who is also a big Little Feat fan. I also was exposed to the VU, David Bowie, and the Stooges thanks to him.
Last edited by JimmyJazz on Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Bruce
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1232
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:36 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Bruce » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:36 am

JimmyJazz wrote:Part of me now regrets placing Zappa and Beefheart so low on my list. I was exposed to their amazing music through my dad actually, who is also a big Little Feat fan.
Your dad must have smoked a lot of pot :music-rockon:

User avatar
Bruce
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1232
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:36 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Bruce » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:46 am

Pierre wrote:Some people like Bruce factor the initial and lasting popularity of artists into the equation, others, like me, do not.
I don't factor in anything other than my personal taste.

The debate was over whether Big Star qualifies as legendary like Jackie Wilson and the Four Tops. That debate cannot be settled by the personal taste of a relatively tiny group of people here on the site. It's got to be about each act's status in the overall music world. I say that Big Star is not even close to being significant enough to be called a legend.

Wikipedia calls them "one of the most mythic and influential cult acts in all of rock & roll."

Clearly they're popular around here because the site has loads of alternative fans and Wikipedia says "Big Star added dark, existential themes, and produced a style that foreshadowed the alternative rock of the 1980s and 1990s. "

User avatar
Pierre
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1884
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:21 pm

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Pierre » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:17 am

Then, let's drop the debate altogether. No one can choose who is a legend or not here, only voice personal opinions. My personal opinion is that people have a rather flexible approach of that kind of terminology, so I won't make a fuss over their choice of words.

Big Star never really broke through in my personal tastes anyway, but I have stopped listening to the Four Tops and Jackie Wilson for a few years already, and I don't feel like going back to them at the moment. Everything is a matter of personal tastes, plain and simple. If the poll was effectively about who are the greatest artists of all time, it would be a different story entirely.

User avatar
Bruce
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1232
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:36 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Bruce » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:27 am

Pierre wrote:Then, let's drop the debate altogether. No one can choose who is a legend or not here, only voice personal opinions. My personal opinion is that people have a rather flexible approach of that kind of terminology, so I won't make a fuss over their choice of words.

Big Star never really broke through in my personal tastes anyway, but I have stopped listening to the Four Tops and Jackie Wilson for a few years already, and I don't feel like going back to them at the moment. Everything is a matter of personal tastes, plain and simple. If the poll was effectively about who are the greatest artists of all time, it would be a different story entirely.
Jackie Wilson may very well be the best singer in the history of rock and roll.

User avatar
Moonbeam
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1841
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:40 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Moonbeam » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:28 am

70 : Charles Mingus

I've recently dabbled a bit with jazz, checking out some of the heavy-hitting albums. The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady was among them, and it was one of the ones I enjoyed the most. I imagine Mingus and other jazz titans like John Coltrane and particularly Sun Ra will climb up my list in the future.

69 : Curtis Mayfield & Impressions

Yet another artist who I appreciate on the surface but have not taken the time to explore in any sort of detail. "Right on for the Darkness" was one of the revelations of the Unacclaimed game, and I should have checked him out then. I imagine it's only a matter of time before he makes an appearance on my list.

68 : Fleetwood Mac

Like Elton John, Fleetwood Mac were one of my mom's favorites as I was growing up. Unlike Elton John, though, I liked what I heard! Rumours got some regular play when I was a kid, and the big singles really stood out to me, particularly "You Make Lovin' Fun". These days, I'm particularly partial to "Gypsy" and "Rhiannon", but they have lots of singles that have a heavy nostalgic pull.

67 : Ramones

Maximumbeef's comment about their euphoric fun is right on the money. Yes, punk could be political, angry, and incendiary, but it could also be almost innocent, precocious fun. Tracks like "Beat on the Brat" and "Loudmouth" are hilarious fun, while "I Want to Be Your Boyfriend" showcases a sugary sweet side that is downright charming. So it is that Ramones are my favorite punk band, unless Blondie counts.

66 : Aretha Franklin

I used to rather revile Aretha, as I felt the overblown claims of her being the Queen of Soul were unjustified. "Respect" was a big put-off for me in addition to her attitude (she once refused to perform with Annie Lennox, who she thought was a lesbian). I've come around a bit to her, though, thanks to songs like "Think" and "I Say a Little Prayer". Still, I doubt she'll ever be a favorite of mine.

User avatar
Bruce
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1232
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:36 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Bruce » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:49 am

Moonbeam wrote: in addition to her attitude (she once refused to perform with Annie Lennox, who she thought was a lesbian).
I don't see why you would let things outside of her music affect your opinion of her music.

ALL THAT MATTERS IS WHAT'S COMING OUT OF THE SPEAKERS

User avatar
Pierre
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1884
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:21 pm

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Pierre » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:59 am

Bruce wrote:I don't see why you would let things outside of her music affect your opinion of her music.
Hum, maybe because we are humans in the first place?

User avatar
Bruce
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1232
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:36 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Bruce » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:09 am

Pierre wrote:
Bruce wrote:I don't see why you would let things outside of her music affect your opinion of her music.
Hum, maybe because we are humans in the first place?
Let's say that David Bowie was your favorite artist. If he gets exposed as a child molester next year are you suddenly not going to like his music anymore?

If Michael Jackson had been convicted in his child molesting trial would you now dislike his music?

I don't get that. The songs sound the same as they always did. What the singer does outside of music has no bearing on my opinion of that music.

Nassim
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1836
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:35 pm
Location: Paris

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Nassim » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:25 am

I kinda want to wait for Moonbeam to go through the 100-21 list before posting but he is quite a busy in his new daddy life so I guess this might take a while !

Let's get rid of the 2 new entries in the top 20

20) Elvis Presley
708,6 points / 19 votes
Image
AM Rank : 8
2010 poll rank : 37

2008 poll rank : 47

Top Albums (2011 poll) :
Elvis Presley (429)

Top Songs (2012 poll) :
Suspicious Minds (76)
Heartbreak Hotel (172)
Hound Dog (199)
Jailhouse Rock (417)
That's All Right (438)
Mystery Train (823)

Biggest Fans :
jamieW (1)

Bruce (2)
Bruno (2)
Hymie (3)
whuntva (14)
stone37 (16)
Dan (18)
Daniel (19)

The King, at last, makes it to the top 20 (though he still is very far from the other royalty in our top 20) and becomes our favorite Elvis for the first time. It's usually hard for artists who started (and arguably had their peak) before the 60s and for artists acclaimed for songs more than albums, so that's a nice bias correction.

19) Nirvana
718,3 points / 22 votes
Image
AM Rank : 20
2010 poll rank : 21

2008 poll rank : 22

19, 20, 21, 22, whichever list you pick, the place of Nirvana among the greatest/most acclaimed ones seems settled now

Top Albums (2011 poll) :
Nevermind (19)
In Utero (101)
MTV Unplugged in New York (323)

Top Songs (2012 poll) :
Smells Like Teen Spirit (20)
All Apologies (111)
Heart-Shaped Box (296)
Lithium (400)
Come As You Are (605)
Dumb (917)

Biggest Fans :
Blanco (1)

Poliuks (9)
Mattceinicram (10)
Listyguy (10)
Maximumbeef (11)
JimmyJazz (13)
whuntva (19)
pauldrach (20)

User avatar
HRS
Different Class
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:59 am
Location: Brazil

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by HRS » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:15 am

luvulongTIM wrote:I'm being perfectly pleasant especially after seeing how ridiculously and horrifically high Tom Waits rose in this particular poll where as all the cool kids all of a sudden gave up on Belle and Sebastian and people think they scored too high and shouldn't even be placed at #100. Why? Because somebody said their stuff from the 00s doesn't come close to comparing to their classics from the 90s when even Stuart himself said Arab Strap is probably his least favorite album they made. You put Tigermilk and Arab Strap up against Life Pursuit and Dear Catastrophe Waitress and see which stands out and you'll see just how far they've come and how they've evolved which is what I THOUGHT people wanted. It's why no other TWEE band has ever touched them as far as success and popularity.
I dislike Belle and Sebastian later-days and I am no hipster or "cool kid". I don't care what Stuart thinks, it was downhill in terms of consistency after the Boy with the Arab Strap. This "somebody", a.k.a. my ears, told me that. Also, I don't know in Los Angeles, but Belle and Sebastian is a super-hipster band where I live at, basically famed after their 00s indie pop records. So, there you go. I guess this was one of the points that people made about Bruce. He worked in a store where no one ever asked for Big Star and he was a DJ and no song was played. But who was his audience? Where is this store? People forget that moment that they are torn from their geographical frame some of their truths turn into irrelevancy. Here where I live, I have friends who are not cult and they know who Big Star is; they would actually consider Four Tops a cult band. Well, I also think this thread had a little to comment about double-standards. Big Star wasn't legendary and everyone is over the subject because of a difference of opinion. Now, others and I clearly dislike later-day B&S and we consequently love Zooey Deschanel and skinny jeans -- although I have none in my wardrobe and haven't turned a TV on or watched an contemporary american movie in years -- and everyone is silenced. Perhaps because it is not disagreeable? Not coming from old Bruce again who ignored most of music after the half of the last century? It's raining a lot today here, let me go and get my hoodie while I pretend brazilian northeast is Brooklyn.

In the end, these are just opinions. I don't know why we seem quicker to express ourselves in such a mix of anger-funiness that I can't even tell apart if luvlongTIM is actually serious when he speaks those things or if Bruce isn't self-conscious enough to know that this is going the old route that went other times -- before the grand "fuck you, communists!" finale. Let's stop arguing over trivial things instead of discussing the music. I don't see no one understanding better about Big Star nor Four Tops. For example, I love Tom Waits. Belle and Sebastian has nothing on the man. Why should I bring this up? To cause some kind of answer-stir to the fact that I was stereotyped because of an opinion? Let's speak about the music and not compare, once again, acts who obviously had different drives when it came to produce their songs -- in the case of Big Star and Four Tops, who basically faced a different kind of music industry, audience, of limitations, even format preferences.

Nassim
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1836
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:35 pm
Location: Paris

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Nassim » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:38 am

Bruce wrote:
DocBrown wrote:I'm your age (54) grew up twelve miles outside of Buffalo, N.Y., on a diet of Soul Train and Casey Kacem (sp.?) and I can't name one song by Jackie Wilson, and have blessedly forgotten the Four Tops (thank you, early dementia), but I own four albums by Big Star.
I'll be interested to see your personal list when they get posted. How many of your top 100 artists are white?
Not only is that a silly question, it is once again I think asked with a narrow vision. For instance, we have 26 bands or artists that are black in our top 100 (I won't get picky and start fractioning mixed acts like TV on the Radio, the Jimi Hendrix Experience or the Family Stone) and you only voted for 8 of them which is below the average (around 11,5). I won't start saying because of that "oh, boohoohoo, Bruce is racist", no it's just that there is a fringe of the Black Music you don't care much about (hip-hop, jazz, funk, house, all parts of black music as much as others) or at least like less than other genres, and it happens that most of the black artists that are the most appreciated around here are part of those genres.

Nassim
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1836
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:35 pm
Location: Paris

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Nassim » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:51 am

Next : a 5 year lifespan and a 45 and going year career, all chilling together.

18) The Smiths
718,5 points / 20 votes
Image
AM Rank : 25
2010 poll rank : 19

2008 poll rank : 17

Top Albums (2011 poll) :
The Queen is Dead (21)
The Smiths (157)
Strangeways, Here We Come (199)
Meat Is Murder (497)

Top Songs (2012 poll) :
There Is a Light That Never Goes Out (56)
How Soon Is Now? (85)
This Charming Man (149)
Bigmouth Strikes Again (355)

Biggest Fans :
Slick (4)
Otisredding (5)
Michel (5)
PlasticRam (7)
Nick (9)
DaveC (10)
Mattceinicram (13)
Moonbeam (18)
Henrik (19)

The Smiths beat Nirvana by the narrowest margin in the whole top 100. So narrow that would I have put Nirvana at #93 in my ballot instead of #94, Cobain and Co would have overtaken Morrissey and co.

17) Neil Young
780,4 points / 23 votes
Image
AM Rank : 11
2010 poll rank : 17

2008 poll rank : 7

Top Albums (2011 poll) :
After the Gold Rush (22)
Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere (115)
Harvest (116)
On the Beach (152)
Rust Never Sleeps (164)
Tonight's the Night (228)

Top Songs (2012 poll) :
Cortez The Killer (301)
Southern Man (347)
Heart of Gold (349)
After The Gold Rush (357)
Rockin' In The Free World (361)
Hey Hey, My My (Into The Black) (440)
The Needle and The Damage Done (572)
Ambulance Blues (854)

Biggest Fans :
Kingoftonga (1)

Stephan (5)
nicolas (6)
DaveC (13)
Henry (15)
Listyguy (19)
Otisredding (17)
Gillingham (20)

DocBrown
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1246
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:15 am
Location: Edmonton, Canada

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by DocBrown » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:54 am

Nassim wrote:Not only is that a silly question, it is once again I think asked with a narrow vision.
Nassim, I'm not going to respond to the original post, but I thank you for pointing out its basic silliness. As a non-white male, I will admit to voting for the only artist in the top 500 who shares my ethnicity, twice! Once as a solo artist and once as a member of a band that despite my top twenty vote fell out of the top 100.

Edit: I should be careful not to be too quick in my assumptions, lest I commit the same sins I accused someone else of. Tilly and the Wall also made the top 500, with another representative of my "race", Kianna Alarid. Tori Amos, Jimi Hendrix and Ben Harper all self-identify as members of my larger family as well (I may well have forgotten or missed any number of others; if so I apologize to those artists, and to their fans.)

Hey, and go Shakey. While I put two Canadians in my top twenty, I just couldn't squeeze in Neil.
Last edited by DocBrown on Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kingoftonga
Rust Never Sleeps
Posts: 679
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:50 pm

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Kingoftonga » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:16 pm

Hooray for Neil Young! Though I'm sad I wasn't around in 2008 when he cracked the Top 10.

I'm off to a conference for the next three days, but I know I'll be surreptitiously checking the roll-out on my phone between sessions. :) Excited to see how it ends.

Nassim
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1836
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:35 pm
Location: Paris

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Nassim » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:50 pm

I want to post number 14 and 15 together (just because I found of nice photo of them together, so here is number 16

16) The Clash
798,7 points / 25 votes
Image
AM Rank : 18
2010 poll rank : 11

2008 poll rank : 15

Top Albums (2011 poll) :
London Calling (8)
The Clash (161)

Top Songs (2012 poll) :
London Calling (9)
Train In Vain (Stand By Me) (112)
(White Man) In Hammersmith Palais (127)
The Magnificent Seven (397)
The Guns of Brixton (431)
Spanish Bombs (465)
Rock The Casbah (514)
Complete Control (712)

Biggest Fans :
Kingoftonga (6)
Nick (6)
Michel (7)
JimmyJazz (9)
Otisredding (11)
PlasticRam (13)
Poliuks (14)
Maximumbeef (16)
DaveC (18)
Jackson (20)
Brad (20)
whuntva (20)

User avatar
Otisredding
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1549
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:00 am
Location: Banyoles, Catalonia (Spain)

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Otisredding » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:39 pm

101 : Roy Orbison

Everything in the life of this wonderful man is sad and tragic.

Now, could not enter the top 100 greatest rock artists.

But you know, Roy, I love you.

Image

User avatar
Moonbeam
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1841
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:40 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Moonbeam » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:46 pm

Bruce wrote:
Moonbeam wrote: in addition to her attitude (she once refused to perform with Annie Lennox, who she thought was a lesbian).
I don't see why you would let things outside of her music affect your opinion of her music.

ALL THAT MATTERS IS WHAT'S COMING OUT OF THE SPEAKERS
I generally try to avoid learning about the personal lives of artists because it generally doesn't interest me that much, but hearing that story just made Aretha's potent feminine anthems ring hollow.

User avatar
Blanco
Rust Never Sleeps
Posts: 693
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:25 am
Location: Mexico City
Contact:

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Blanco » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:47 pm

JimmyJazz wrote:Part of me now regrets placing Zappa and Beefheart so low on my list. I was exposed to their amazing music through my dad actually, who is also a big Little Feat fan.
It must have been great growing up with a father with excellent taste. :music-guitarred: :music-listening:

User avatar
Moonbeam
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1841
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:40 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Moonbeam » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:54 pm

65 : Black Sabbath

I definitely appreciate their legacy, but little of their music has really connected with me personally. Still, as someone who appreciates the fake, poppy metal, I should probably give the real deal a try.

64 : Nick Drake

I don't think I've heard a single song by him. I don't really care for folk, so I've never felt the urge to give his material a try. Then again, I didn't think I'd like Sufjan Stevens either, and I was dead wrong about that...

63 : The Stooges

Now we're onto something! Iggy's showmanship was awe-inspiring and the Stooges' brand of thrilling proto-punk resonates with my inner adolescent.

62 : John Lennon

I don't think I'll ever understand the appeal. Sorry!

61 : Sonic Youth

"Teenage Riot" was my first exposure to them, and it didn't leave much of an impression at all. Along with Pixies, Sonic youth seemed to lead the alternative rock movement that killed off a lot of the music I like, so it doesn't carry the momentous importance to me that it would others. But once I heard "Kool Thing" (I think for Bracketology), my ears perked up in a big way. I quickly rushed out to get Goo and enjoyed it. I should probably dig deeper into their 80s material given the 80s polls.

sonofsamiam
Rust Never Sleeps
Posts: 861
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:19 pm

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by sonofsamiam » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:36 pm

Just a comment on the Big Star topic (I know, I should probably let it die)...

One of the nice things about these polls is that it allows unfairly ignored, initially underappreciated artists to get their moment in the sun. And one of the nice things about the internet is that it democraticizes this a bit. A great artist is no longer at the mercy of the radio, the record companies that feed songs to the radio, and a small set of magazine writers. And of course, as mentioned many times, this is about subjective, rather than objective, opinion.

As far as the public knowing them...I have heard "September Gurls" on commercial radio here (WXRT in Chicago). But even more than that, I think many Americans are familiar with "In the Street", which was covered by Cheap Trick as the theme to That 70's Show.

It's too bad Alex Chilton didn't continue to get the same support with Big Star that he got with his previous group, the Box Tops. But such were the vagaries of record companies in the '70s.

User avatar
Bruce
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1232
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:36 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Bruce » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:02 pm

HRS wrote: I guess this was one of the points that people made about Bruce. He worked in a store where no one ever asked for Big Star and he was a DJ and no song was played. But who was his audience? Where is this store?
The store was in Hackensack, NJ. My DJ audience were people born between the late 1930s and the late 1960s, mostly white college age people on some nights and mostly white 30-60 year olds on other nights.
HRS wrote:
Not coming from old Bruce again who ignored most of music after the half of the last century?
What are you talking about? Almost all of my top 1,000 favorite songs of all time come from the last half of last century, which started in 1950 or 1951. I ignored, at most, the last 10 years of last century.

Nassim
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1836
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:35 pm
Location: Paris

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Nassim » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:09 pm

Image

15) (The) Jimi Hendrix (Experience)
802,1 points / 24 votes
AM Rank : 12
2010 poll rank : 12

2008 poll rank : 32

Top Albums (2011 poll) :
Are You Experienced? (35)
Electric Ladyland (47)
Axis: Bold as Love (265)

Top Songs (2012 poll) :
All Along The Watchtower (8)
Purple Haze (118)
Hey Joe (136)
Voodoo Child (Slight Return) (147)
Little Wing (273)
Burning of The Midnight Lamp (703)
Crosstown Traffic (765)
Manic Depression (789)
Bold As Love (949)
Fire (987)
Are You Experienced (993)

Biggest Fans :
Listyguy (1)

Mattceinicram (6)
DocBrown (6)
Slick (11)
whuntva (12)
Poliuks (12)
Henry (13)
Nick (15)
nicolas (18)
JimmyJazz (19)

14) The Who
813,7 points / 23 votes
AM Rank : 9
2010 poll rank : 16

2008 poll rank : 11

Top Albums (2011 poll) :
Who's Next ? (34)
Tommy (166)
The Who Sell Out (254)
Quadrophenia (432)

Top Songs (2012 poll) :
Won't Get Fooled Again (51)
Baba O'Riley (54)
My Generation (83)
Behind Blue Eyes (160)
I Can See for Miles (406)
Pinball Wizard (571)
We're Not Gonna Take It (748)
I Can't Explain (813)
Eminence Front (828)

Biggest Fans :
whuntva (2)
DocBrown (3)
Stephan (4)
PlasticRam (4)
Henry (5)
stone37 (9)
Bruno (14)
Nick (17)

Nick and Jimmy both bet on Jimi climbing a few spots, but the opposite actually happened. Less than 4 points between Jimi and the Clash and less than 2 points between the Who and whoever is ahead of them. Those are the last time any vote, even on the bottom of a list, would have made a difference.

User avatar
Bruce
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1232
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:36 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Bruce » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:09 pm

Moonbeam wrote:I generally try to avoid learning about the personal lives of artists because it generally doesn't interest me that much, but hearing that story just made Aretha's potent feminine anthems ring hollow.
Which has NOTHING at all to do with what her music sounds like. These people are in show business, they are performers. What the happen to be singing about in a particular song has nothing to do with how they personally feel about the subject of the song, especially when they did not write the song.

The Beatles sang songs that have diametrically opposed messages, like "Can't Buy Me Love" and "Money." It does not mean that they necessarilly believe the words of either song. It's show business. They base their repertiore on the overall sound of the record, not on what the lyrics happen to be saying.

Nick
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 2251
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:28 pm
Location: New York State

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Nick » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:00 pm

Bruce wrote:
Moonbeam wrote:I generally try to avoid learning about the personal lives of artists because it generally doesn't interest me that much, but hearing that story just made Aretha's potent feminine anthems ring hollow.
Which has NOTHING at all to do with what her music sounds like. These people are in show business, they are performers. What the happen to be singing about in a particular song has nothing to do with how they personally feel about the subject of the song, especially when they did not write the song.

The Beatles sang songs that have diametrically opposed messages, like "Can't Buy Me Love" and "Money." It does not mean that they necessarilly believe the words of either song. It's show business. They base their repertiore on the overall sound of the record, not on what the lyrics happen to be saying.
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh It's kinda hard to agree with that. I'm sure a lot of artists don't put too much thought into their lyrics, but to claim all artists don't put any thought into their lyrics whatsoever is real stretch. Most artists lyrics have a strong emphasis on their own personal experiences, from Bob Dylan to Kanye West to The Beatles and etc.

But the point you bring up about letting an artists life impact the way one views their music interests me greatly, as it's something I've been debating with myself for some time now. One on hand, it doesn't seem fair to judge the music for anything other than "what comes out of the speakers" as that is the final product that you are hearing. But on the other hand, music can oftentimes be very hard to divorce from context, and it just doesn't seem as powerful listening to a song about a divorce from someone who has never been through one when compared to a song about divorce from someone who has been through one.

User avatar
Bruce
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1232
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:36 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Bruce » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:29 pm

Nick wrote:But the point you bring up about letting an artists life impact the way one views their music interests me greatly, as it's something I've been debating with myself for some time now. One on hand, it doesn't seem fair to judge the music for anything other than "what comes out of the speakers" as that is the final product that you are hearing. But on the other hand, music can oftentimes be very hard to divorce from context, and it just doesn't seem as powerful listening to a song about a divorce from someone who has never been through one when compared to a song about divorce from someone who has been through one.
When you watch the Godfather do you refuse to accept the actors who play the characters as killers because you know that they are not killers in real life?

If you watch a movie about divorce and the lead actors have never been divorced in real life, is the movie not as powerful?

Just consider the musicians and singers to be like actors and you'll never have a problem again.

It's "Show" business.

User avatar
Bruce
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1232
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:36 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Bruce » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:32 pm

Nick wrote: Most artists lyrics have a strong emphasis on their own personal experiences, from Bob Dylan to Kanye West to The Beatles and etc.
Most artists do not write lyrics. Frank Sinatra, Elvis and Bing Crosby never wrote lyrics in their entire careers.

Gillingham
Rust Never Sleeps
Posts: 936
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:33 pm
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Gillingham » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:38 pm

Bruce wrote:
Nick wrote: Most artists lyrics have a strong emphasis on their own personal experiences, from Bob Dylan to Kanye West to The Beatles and etc.
Most artists do not write lyrics. Frank Sinatra, Elvis and Bing Crosby never wrote lyrics in their entire careers.
Most artists in this top 100 do.

User avatar
HRS
Different Class
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:59 am
Location: Brazil

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by HRS » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:39 pm

Nick wrote: Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh It's kinda hard to agree with that. I'm sure a lot of artists don't put too much thought into their lyrics, but to claim all artists don't put any thought into their lyrics whatsoever is real stretch. Most artists lyrics have a strong emphasis on their own personal experiences, from Bob Dylan to Kanye West to The Beatles and etc.

But the point you bring up about letting an artists life impact the way one views their music interests me greatly, as it's something I've been debating with myself for some time now. One on hand, it doesn't seem fair to judge the music for anything other than "what comes out of the speakers" as that is the final product that you are hearing. But on the other hand, music can oftentimes be very hard to divorce from context, and it just doesn't seem as powerful listening to a song about a divorce from someone who has never been through one when compared to a song about divorce from someone who has been through one.
Bruce wrote: Just consider the musicians and singers to be like actors and you'll never have a problem again.

It's "Show" business.
Once I read that we should think of musicians as actors - some will play the roles they have written for themselves and the rest of the crew, others will play roles that are made for you to fully connect with them. In the end, what should matter is if the role was well played or not. But even in acting this is controversial. I personally love Liv Ullmann because she morphs her own with the personas she's about to play; Meanwhile, I have seen others criticize Meryl Streep because she always seems like Meryl Streep playing someone. So there's also this debate over which acting methods look more legitimate on screen. Looks like there's no easy answer. I have seen some of this problem in other areas as well. I have met people who just can't enjoy a Godard movie because of his left politics; Others can't hear the name Heidegger because of his connections with the ultra-nationalist Germany of the interwar period. And Moonbeam just feels some of Aretha's anthems are hollow after her reaction towards Annie Lennox.

I think that the Aretha problem might have aroused because of different contexts. When Aretha was at the height of her career, being a powerful woman meant one thing; being a powerful black woman another thing completely. So I feel her empowerment songs still fits these days, but maybe what contemporarily we mean when we want to empower women might collide with her politics. Aretha has a religious album, so I believe she must be a Christian, and we all know that the big outspoken majority is against homosexual relationships -- which, based on my experience with christian groups in my hometown, they reduce to simple intercourse and not any kind of love-based relationship. To Aretha we need to empower women, but not in a way that agrees with Annie Lennox's behavior. In the same way, I don't think Aretha believes that empower women means giving them the right for an abortion; or let them express themselves in a sexual way like Rihanna and others. Then, I think this is more of a generational conflict.
Bruce wrote: Most artists do not write lyrics. Frank Sinatra, Elvis and Bing Crosby never wrote lyrics in their entire careers.
I think your view on this is rather narrow, since you are naturally limited to periods whose main core were performers of material by other people. These days, even the overplayed pop artists on the radio like to place their name among a team of co-writers. I feel like this was a change that arrived with Dylan -- even Joni Mitchell credits him for it -- and slowly took even the mainstream, especially in the 90s with the singer/songwriters boom, in case you had missed it. Time changed the status quo from interpreters to musicians who contribute or compose their lyrics completely. An artist who no longer has any creative input on its own music is largely criticized for it by the audience -- even teen pop fans like to brag about the songwriting input by their groups, something unthinkable on the days of teenage pop music in the 80s or 90s, for example.

User avatar
JimmyJazz
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1293
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:28 am
Location: Arizona

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by JimmyJazz » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:49 pm

Blanco wrote:
JimmyJazz wrote:Part of me now regrets placing Zappa and Beefheart so low on my list. I was exposed to their amazing music through my dad actually, who is also a big Little Feat fan.
It must have been great growing up with a father with excellent taste. :music-guitarred: :music-listening:
It has been great! I'm sure when I tell him that he will enjoy the compliment! :D

User avatar
Bruce
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1232
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:36 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Bruce » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:50 pm

Gillingham wrote:
Bruce wrote:
Nick wrote: Most artists lyrics have a strong emphasis on their own personal experiences, from Bob Dylan to Kanye West to The Beatles and etc.
Most artists do not write lyrics. Frank Sinatra, Elvis and Bing Crosby never wrote lyrics in their entire careers.
Most artists in this top 100 do.
But not "most artists" in the history of recorded music, not even close.

User avatar
HRS
Different Class
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:59 am
Location: Brazil

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by HRS » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:58 pm

Bruce wrote:
But not "most artists" in the history of recorded music, not even close.
There's no way of knowing this. Especially because there's a lot of recorded music that we won't ever hear. Think of everyone that plays in restaurants, shopping malls, record on their bedrooms, release the music through iTunes and no one never downloads it. There's a lot of music that's not being heard from past decades and the present; From people that sometimes are interpreters and other songwriters. How one's to know if they belong to one side or the other? These days, there's a larger pressure that an artist will differentiate itself from the rest or blend perfectly with the trends -- like in mainstream pop, where, ironically, antics and personality outside the stage or concerning image management are being stronger factors in creating fame and selling recordings than the music itself.
Last edited by HRS on Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Bruce
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1232
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:36 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Bruce » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:58 pm

HRS wrote:I think that the Aretha problem might have aroused because of different contexts. When Aretha was at the height of her career, being a powerful woman meant one thing; being a powerful black woman another thing completely. So I feel her empowerment songs still fits these days, but maybe what contemporarily we mean when we want to empower women might collide with her politics. Aretha has a religious album, so I believe she must be a Christian, and we all know that the big outspoken majority is against homosexual relationships -- which, based on my experience with christian groups in my hometown, they reduce to simple intercourse and not any kind of love-based relationship. To Aretha we need to empower women, but not in a way that agrees with Annie Lennox's behavior. In the same way, I don't think Aretha believes that empower women means giving them the right for an abortion; or let them express themselves in a sexual way like Rihanna and others. Then, I think this is more of a generational conflict.
I have no interest in Atetha's views on anything. She's a singer, not a philosopher or a politician whose views could affect me.

HRS wrote:I think your view on this is rather narrow, since you are naturally limited to periods whose main core were performers of material by other people.
And most folks around here are limited to periods when singers wanted to write their own material. My view comes from 85 years of music (1900-1985), so it far less limited than most folks here.
HRS wrote: These days, even the overplayed pop artists on the radio like to place their name among a team of co-writers. I feel like this was a change that arrived with Dylan -- even Joni Mitchell credits him for it -- and slowly took even the mainstream, especially in the 90s with the singer/songwriters boom, in case you had missed it.
I wish I had, it was one of the worst things that ever happened to popular music. Every schmuck who can barely carry a tune now thinks that he's also a songwriter.
HRS wrote:Time changed the status quo from interpreters to musicians who contribute or compose their lyrics completely. An artist who no longer has any creative input on its own music is largely criticized for it by the audience -- even teen pop fans like to brag about the songwriting input by their groups, something unthinkable on the days of teenage pop music in the 80s or 90s, for example.
Yes, the contemporary music fan has been brainwashed by this mindset. Music is entertainment, it's not about the singer's political views.

Would anybody refuse to go to a Denzel Washington movie because he did not write the screenplay himself?

I have ZERO interest in the point of view of any musician about anything outside of music. What makes some musician's view significant? I may as well ask my plumber what he thinks.

User avatar
Bruce
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1232
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:36 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Bruce » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:01 pm

HRS wrote:
Bruce wrote:
But not "most artists" in the history of recorded music, not even close.
There's no way of knowing this.
Sure there is. For the first 60 years of recorded music there were almost no singers around who ever wrote songs. especially lyrics. The songwriters were completely different folks from the singers. And that continued into later years with major stars like Elvis, Tom Jones, Dionne Warwick, Tony Bennett and many others.

Harold
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1947
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Harold » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:03 pm

HRS wrote:
Bruce wrote: Just consider the musicians and singers to be like actors and you'll never have a problem again.

It's "Show" business.
Bruce wrote:Most artists do not write lyrics. Frank Sinatra, Elvis and Bing Crosby never wrote lyrics in their entire careers.
I think your view on this is rather narrow, since you are naturally limited to periods whose main core were performers of material by other people. These days, even the overplayed pop artists on the radio like to place their name among a team of co-writers. I feel like this was a change that arrived with Dylan -- even Joni Mitchell credits him for it -- and slowly took even the mainstream, especially in the 90s with the singer/songwriters boom, in case you had missed it. Time changed the status quo from interpreters to musicians who contribute or compose their lyrics completely. An artist who no longer has any creative input on its own music is largely criticized for it by the audience -- even teen pop fans like to brag about the songwriting input by their groups, something unthinkable on the days of teenage pop music in the 80s or 90s, for example.
Something to be said on all sides of this argument, I think. Nick's comment about artists writing lyrics "from their personal experiences" makes sense in terms of the people we think of when we think of "singer-songwriters" in the post-Dylan sense (e.g., Joni Mitchell, Paul Simon, etc.) but doesn't hold water across the board, even for Dylan or The Beatles (unless, for example, Paul McCartney actually went around murdering people with a hammer). Someone like Randy Newman is a perfect example - he's spent his entire career "acting" through his songs like Bruce is talking about, adopting the personae of a wide variety of often-unpleasant, unstable, or just plain abhorrent characters. When he had a fluke hit single with "Short People," he was roundly attacked by lots of people previously unfamiliar with his music - precisely because we've all been conditioned to believe that artists must always be writing about themselves, hence if Randy Newman the singer is saying that short people have no reason to live, Randy Newman the person must actually believe that.

Or, take Bruce Springsteen. The Boss hasn't been poor, I don't think, for a very, very long time, yet he has continued to write in the "voice" of those who are. I don't doubt that he has a vast well of empathy to draw from when inhabiting these characters, but he certainly isn't describing his own experiences.

That said, it is true that, since the mid-1960s, critics and (many) fans have difficulty taking seriously any artist who doesn't at least contribute to the lyrics of the songs they sing. This is a big part of the reason why someone like Taylor Swift, whose music is ultra-mainstream teen-flavored pop (and, don't get me wrong, is not without its pleasures), is not only idolized by her fans but given a surprising amount of critical respect: she writes all her own songs, most of them on her own, and of course they're seen as reflecting her own personal experiences.

Not much to add here and not much time to write even if I did. Just wanted to contribute.

Incredible job with the presentation here, Nassim. I'm sorry I didn't have time to compile my own list.

User avatar
Henrik
Site Admin
Posts: 5179
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:09 am
Location: Älvsjö, Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Henrik » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:06 pm

OK, so Bruce you have one opinion, and most of the rest of us have another opinion. We're all entitled to our opinions, so there's no problem. I feel there's no need to continue this discussion.

Of course it has to be up to everyone to decide whether to take in the personal lives of artists when he/she listens to music.
Everyone you meet fights a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.

User avatar
HRS
Different Class
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:59 am
Location: Brazil

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by HRS » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:30 pm

It's funny, Bruce should care more about philosophy. I'm pretty sure he watches american movies from the 40s and don't think about the implications it had politically to the country. Did you know that those movies were used as soft power to promote american standards? Otherwise, the movies wouldn't be produced. Any alternative to Hollywood was suffocated until the avant-gard flavors of the independent scene during the mid-to-late-century. What I'm trying to point out Bruce is that we are further evidence of a generational conflict. Sometimes i read your opinions and you sound like time-warped from the 50s. Not only in tastes, but in personal sensitivities about subjects.

Your view that music is merely entertaining has been deconstructed plenty of times before by philosophers and artists themselves. Music, like all products of human mind, has a goal. You crystalize this goal as entertainment basically because you are the product of an era that behaved in such a way. You could have debated with successive generations and understand better about things, but you don't. You're narrow because you centralize the symbolism things in your own beliefs. This is common. My generation don't think of music as entertainment nor albums as vehicles for singles because we were raised on artists that took the format and experimented with it differently. This new generation, on the other hand, is shaping itself differently. European philosophy is rich when it comes to the power of symbols in our culture; it is also rich when it comes to naturalism. Bruce, we are a product of plenty of things that compose our being and life. If Aretha is religious, her actions are informed by it unless she isn't a christian beyond her discourse. Her music also, since she took the time to record christian music and express her beliefs through it. An interpreter won't interpret songs that he doesn't like the subjects, unless the label forces it because of contractual obligations. What does inform that action? It's not separated.

Nothing in this world is neutral. Not even entertainment. All actions bring reactions. The idea that music has the goal of entertaining is wrong, in my view, because that means it only has one goal and it has not. It can be entertainment and critical acclaim; it can be critical acclaim and commercial success. It can be no entertainment at all, or do you really think John Cage cared about it when he recorded noises? Musique Concrete expanded at the same time of plenty of other artists whose main goal was different of exploring the boundaries of noise and music. There are drives that don't conflict each other, because coexistence is possible. Harold gave the Taylor Swift example. Billie Holiday, an entertainer, had a large impact in black-americans because of a song that she didn't write. She might have recorded it as entertainment, and I am sure she didn't, but it had concrete impacts on other spheres of life and politics. Music is not an end in itself.

This only points to your misinformation over how this new generation works. We are connected to each other further than ever before, but also, ever so distant. People follow celebrities; they are paid to take pictures of them; they form wrongful images of how their lives are through social media; they overexpose themselves; they are the little stars of their little audience; singers are sensations since they explode online because of their personality, their sex appeal, not the music; music critics feed of hype and the artists of today are lucky if they have more than one critically-acclaimed album on them. Every single thing you think that doesn't count on judgement is what drives the music industry these days. It's all entertainment, granted. But then, there are others that don't follow the pattern. They rather be taken seriously through other means. That's why music can be other things that are not entertainment, even art.

You don't have to change your views. I know well enough to understand that you will read this not as a debater, but judging through your well-established lens. This, my forum colleague, it's a generation conflict, but there's only one of us pretending to have the truth sent by the Gods.

User avatar
luvulongTIM
Different Class
Posts: 306
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:14 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by luvulongTIM » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:46 pm

Henrik wrote:OK, so Bruce you have one opinion, and most of the rest of us have another opinion. We're all entitled to our opinions, so there's no problem. I feel there's no need to continue this discussion.

Of course it has to be up to everyone to decide whether to take in the personal lives of artists when he/she listens to music.
Apparently not everyone feels that way ;) What was that Modest Mouse song where at the very end of the song you hear a "I still get the last word" ? :angry-banghead: It was probably off one of those albums that wasn't as good as their earlier work LOL!
Image

User avatar
Bruce
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1232
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:36 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Bruce » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:53 pm

HRS wrote:It's funny, Bruce should care more about philosophy. I'm pretty sure he watches american movies from the 40s
Not really, I prefer more modern movies. I don't like the formal aspect that most movies had back then.
HRS wrote: Sometimes i read your opinions and you sound like time-warped from the 50s. Not only in tastes, but in personal sensitivities about subjects.
The only thing I like about the 50s is the music. I detest the way they used to dress, that hairdos, the segregation, the phoniness about morality, the censorship on television and in movies, etc....
HRS wrote: Your view that music is merely entertaining has been deconstructed plenty of times before by philosophers and artists themselves. Music, like all products of human mind, has a goal.
There are plenty of artists who have said that their songs are not about anything but finding words that sound good phonetically and rhyme nicely. The goal of recorded music is to make money. My grandfather owned a significant record label, Savoy Records, and all he cared about was making money, just like most other label owners.

HRS wrote:You crystalize this goal as entertainment basically because you are the product of an era that behaved in such a way.
I was born in 1957. As I became old enough to care about music, that's when the emphasis started to be on what the artist stood for. I don't want to get into why this happened since Henrik does not want me to say anything negative about music critics.
HRS wrote: If Aretha is religious, her actions are informed by it unless she isn't a christian beyond her discourse.
Which has nothing at all to do with her career as a musician.
HRS wrote: Her music also, since she took the time to record christian music and express her beliefs through it.
How do you know that those are her beliefs? Do you think that randy Newman thinks that short people have no reason to live, or that Bob Dylan cares about Christianity because they sang that before?
HRS wrote: An interpreter won't interpret songs that he doesn't like the subjects, unless the label forces it because of contractual obligations.
You don't know what you're talking about. Black blues musicians at Excello in the 60s played on white supremecist songs because they wanted the paycheck for the session work. The recording industry is a business.

HRS wrote: The idea that music has the goal of entertaining is wrong, in my view, because that means it only has one goal and it has not. It can be entertainment and critical acclaim; it can be critical acclaim and commercial success.
Of course it's commercial success, all entertainers want to make money from their work.
HRS wrote: Billie Holiday, an entertainer, had a large impact in black-americans because of a song that she didn't write. She might have recorded it as entertainment, and I am sure she didn't, but it had concrete impacts on other spheres of life and politics. Music is not an end in itself.
The impact of "Strange Fruit" has been severely overstated down through the years. The song was banned from the radio and most people never heard of it when it was current. It was also issued on a label that did not have real good distribution. "God Bless The Child" was a much more significant record by Holiday.

User avatar
Bruce
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1232
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:36 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Bruce » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:01 pm

Now let's end this debate before Henrik gets annoyed.

Nassim
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1836
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:35 pm
Location: Paris

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Nassim » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:07 pm

Bruce wrote:Which has NOTHING at all to do with what her music sounds like. These people are in show business, they are performers.
I think that's the main reason you will have a hard time agreeing with most people here and the roots of most misunderstanding. Most people here consider music (or at least the music we care for) as a form of art, or at least something more meaningful than a simple business or performance (not to deny this aspect of music, but we don't consider it the main one).
I wouldn't mind having your opinion about wrestling, that's just a performance, a show, a business, but I would not reduce music at the same level.

Anyway, there is an old saying on the internet : "Don't feed the troll". So let's do that from now on, as frustrating as it can be. Let the countdown continue.

13) R.E.M.
815,6 points / 25 votes
Image
AM Rank : 15
2010 poll rank : 8

2008 poll rank : 5

Top Albums (2011 poll) :
Automatic for the People (15)
Murmur (55)
Reckoning (139)
Document (217)
Life's Rich Pageant (250)
Out of Time (347)

Top Songs (2012 poll) :
Losing My Religion (32)
Radio Free Europe (266)
Nightswimming (328)
Everybody Hurts (371)
It's The End of The World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine) (372)
Drive (504)
The One I Love (548)
Fall on Me (689)
Find The River (746)
Country Feedback (876)

Biggest Fans :
Brad (3)
Merlo (3)
Stephan (6)
Michel (8)
Kingoftonga (9)
Listyguy (9)
stone37 (11)
Blanco (15)
Nick (19)

12) The Velvet Underground
868,5 points / 29 votes
Image
AM Rank : 13
2010 poll rank : 6

2008 poll rank : 8

Top Albums (2011 poll) :
The Velvet Underground & Nico (2)
The Velvet Underground (89)
Loaded (138)
White Light/White Heat (140)

Top Songs (2012 poll) :
Heroin (47)
Venus In Furs (96)
I'm Waiting for The Man (107)
Sunday Morning (113)
Sweet Jane (186)
Pale Blue Eyes (268)
All Tomorrow's Parties (312)
Rock and Roll (315)
Sister Ray (578)
I'm Set Free (820)

Biggest Fans :
Poliuks (1)

JimmyJazz (5)
Jackson (8)
Stephan (9)
Brad (9)
Michel (10)
PlasticRam (16)
pauldrach (19)

I expected more of a love/hate vote toward the Velvet, with less votes but more top 20 ones, but it seems that this profile would fit a bit more our next entry

11) Led Zeppelin
874,2 points / 26 votes
Image
AM Rank : 6
2010 poll rank : 14

2008 poll rank : 26

Top Albums (2011 poll) :
Led Zeppelin IV (30)
Led Zeppelin II (163)
Led Zeppelin (165)
Physical Graffiti (179)
Houses of the Holy (205)
Led Zeppelin III (500)

Top Songs (2012 poll) :
Stairway to Heaven (5)
Kashmir (142)
When The Levee Breaks (156)
Whole Lotta Love (292)
Babe I'm Gonna Leave You (401)
Over The Hills and Far Away (543)
Since I've Been Loving You (553)
D'yer Mak'er (663)
Trampled Under Foot (719)
The Song Remains The Same (725)
Dazed and Confused (750)
The Battle of Evermore (762)
Black Dog (794)
The Rain Song (892)
In My Time of Dying (907)
Ramble On (999)

Biggest Fans :
whuntva (4)
Mattceinicram (5)
Listyguy (5)
Poliuks (6)
Nick (7)
Slick (7)
Henry (12)
Bruno (13)
Daniel (16)
Blanco (18)
nicolas (20)

User avatar
HRS
Different Class
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:59 am
Location: Brazil

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by HRS » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:14 pm

I don't have anything more to say. I believe I said what I wanted to. The more you defend yourself, the more I know you're a product of your time and social influences, perhaps forces -- like all of us, really. The grandfather's record label, the view of what music might mean, the conclusion that if people receive paycheck, then the goal of the musician is business or the ideia that a song didn't have an impact as told now because it didn't sell in the millions immediately -- as if black people's struggle and other minorities has finished or something. All these equivocated generalizations coming from your own bruce-centric opinion land. About the paychecks and the need for work by black musicians on recordings that contradicted their morale, that's funny coming from someone that called us communists last time around, since this is a thought that severely fits with Karl Marx's ideia of neo-slave labor after the Industrial Revolution. I knew that you couldn't teach new tricks to an old dog, but some have escaped from this common sense line. In the end, I finish it with an Umberto Eco quote: "The good of a book lies in its being read. A book is made up of signs that speak of other signs, which in their turn speak of things. Without an eye to read them, a book contains signs that produce no concepts; therefore it is dumb." Anything is subject to the perceptions of interpretation. Farewell, Bruce.

Nassim, congratulations for your work here. The list was great and the presentation contained wonderful pictures and great discussion.

EDIT: I just dislike when I finish typing something and some post came during it. Usually, I ignore it because I hate retyping everything to fit the new discussion. But the last two contained "let's stop now and move on". Happened with Henrik first, now Nassim. hahaha Next time you can quote me and direct the message, luvulongTIM, since we're no longer kids to play with the winky emoticons and the tiresome unnamed references. Can't wait for the top 10. :mrgreen:
Last edited by HRS on Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Harold
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1947
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Harold » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:35 pm

Nassim wrote: Anyway, there is an old saying on the internet : "Don't feed the troll". So let's do that from now on, as frustrating as it can be. Let the countdown continue.
Sorry - not interested in continuing the endless circular arguments, but I just wanted to say that it's a little unfair to characterize Bruce - indirectly or not - as a "troll." He may be a lot of things, but he is decidedly not that.

User avatar
JimmyJazz
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1293
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:28 am
Location: Arizona

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by JimmyJazz » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:52 pm

The Velvet Underground are OUT of the Top 10!!! For me, that's the biggest surprise of all. I thought that their position was secured. Oh well, at least the majority of my top 10 will be in the top 10.

Gillingham
Rust Never Sleeps
Posts: 936
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:33 pm
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Gillingham » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:06 pm

Some not-so-small changes in the top 20. I hope that trend will continue right until the end.

User avatar
HRS
Different Class
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:59 am
Location: Brazil

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by HRS » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:11 pm

Nassim wrote: 408 : Television
I guess this was the lowest placement of any artist with an album inside AM Top 50/100? Expected Television to perform better. I'll try to do a list of the artists with a sole highly acclaimed album inside AM that made the top 500 artists, but not the top 100.

EDIT: Carole King is placed lower than Television and she has Tapestry inside the top 100, even if I believe that record failed to make the final cut on the 70s album poll of a few years ago.
Last edited by HRS on Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
Bruce
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 1232
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:36 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: The Acclaimed Music Artists Poll 2013 : top 20 and full

Post by Bruce » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:12 pm

Even though I detest several of the acts that are very popular here, I always like countdowns and I appreciate the work Nassim has done to make this one enjoyable and fun.

Post Reply