2013 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame: Inductees Announced

[JR]

Just one female nominee (outside of the couple female members of Chic)... the male dominance continues.

The breakdown (year of first eligibility in parentheses):

Nirvana (2013): 1st year of eligibility/1st nomination
Chic (2003)- 8th nomination
Deep Purple (1999)- 2nd nomination
Kiss (1999)- 2nd nomination
Hall and Oates (1997)- 1st nomination
The Replacements (2006)- 1st nomination
Peter Gabriel (2002)- 1st nomination
LL Cool J (2009)- 3rd nomination
Link Wray (1985)- 1st nomination
The Meters (1994)- 3rd nomination
N.W.A. (2012)- 2nd nomination
The Paul Butterfield Blues Band (1988)- 3rd nomination
The Zombies (1989)- 1st nomination
Cat Stevens (1991)- 2nd nomination
Yes (1994)- 1st nomination
Linda Ronstadt (1994)- 1st nomination

[Kingoftonga]

No Kraftwerk, which I continue to find absurd.

Nirvana's a shoo-in, of course, but who else? The only act I feel is completely undeserving is Kiss, but I really don't know much by Paul Butterfield Blues Band or Linda Ronstadt. I never know how to judge acts like the Zombies or N.W.A. where they have only one good album, but that one album is massively influential.

I just had a random thought - isn't Bjork eligible for induction? Her "debut" album came out in 1977, after all.

[JimmyJazz]

Yet another pretty bland nominee list. Some of these acts were never even THAT big, let alone, from my perspective, critically acclaimed. Hall & Oates... seriously? Over the likes of Kraftwerk?!

Anyway, here is my top five nominees:

- Nirvana (as Kingoftonga said, the only real shoe-in on this list)
- Deep Purple
- The Replacements
- The Zombies
- Yes

I'm not a big fan of KISS at all (although that might be derived from my personal dislike of Gene Simmons), but, to simply put to rest the constant complaints from all of the classic rock fans, inducting them, along with Yes and Deep Purple in one fell swoop following the induction of Rush last year would be the best move from them on a sheer publicity basis.

[DocBrown]

I'm surprised Linda Ronstadt hasn't been nominated before, but her "popular" albums never had much critical love, and from about the mid-1980's she recorded mostly in Spanish. Her nomination now is probably in sympathy for her recently announced retirement due to MS (edit: sorry, Parkinson's Disease). Which is tragic. Great voice, lousy career management IMO.

But Bjork's album at age 12? Has anyone ever heard it? All the way through? Maybe we can have a special category along with "Alanis" (1991) for the bubblegum hall of fame. (And I say this with love as someone who has listened to Lorde 35 times in the last three weeks.)

Tracy Chapman is also eligible this year. At least as deserving as almost everyone on the list.

[Bruce]

The only act I feel is completely undeserving is Kiss,

I see Kiss as clear hall of famers.

I just had a random thought - isn't Bjork eligible for induction? Her "debut" album came out in 1977, after all.

The hall of fame is located in the USA, where hardly anybody has ever heard of Bjork. I never heard of her until I came to this site.

[Bruce]

Hall & Oates... seriously? Over the likes of Kraftwerk?!

Not even debatable. Hall and Oates have a much better resume than Kraftwerk.

[JimmyJazz]

Going over it in my head, how long have these acts been eligible, and have they ever been even nominated?

- The Smiths
- Pixies
- Sonic Youth
- The Cure
- Joy Division
- New Order
- Lou Reed
- John Cale
- Iggy Pop
- Big Star
- Kraftwerk
- Captain Beefheart
- Roxy Music
- Brian Eno
- Willie Nelson
- Merle Haggard
- Patsy Cline
- Dolly Parton
- Waylon Jennings
- George Jones
- Eurythmics
- Kate Bush
- Little Feat
- Siousxie and the Banshees
- Buzzcocks
- New York Dolls
- Echo and the Bunnymen
- The Jesus and Mary Chain
- Nick Drake
- Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds
- Love
- Janet Jackson
- Lonnie Donegan (An influential skiffle musician that was a big influence on The Beatles and the Brit Rock scene in the 60s)
- The Shangri-Las (Just as great a girl group as either The Supremes or The Ronettes, and once again influential on many punk acts like Ramones and Blondie)

Considering how influential, critically acclaimed, and (in some cases) fairly popular all of the aforementioned acts have been, I find it quite hard to believe that they wouldn't be at least considered for the Hall, let alone inducted. Then again, it is R&R Hall of Fame, controlled by the guys at Rolling Stone and the Village Voice, so what do you expect.

[Bruce]

Tracy Chapman is also eligible this year. At least as deserving as almost everyone on the list.

Here's the names of acts that have been snubbed and should be in IMO.

Wynonie Harris
Roy Brown
Clovers
Billy Ward and the Dominoes
Ravens
Janet Jackson
"5" Royales
Eric B. & Rakim
Chubby Checker
Sister Rosetta Tharpe
Johnny Ace
Chicago
Jerry Butler
Mills Brothers
Chuck Willis
Kool and the Gang
Spinners
Joe Tex
Amos Milburn
Bon Jovi
Ivory Joe Hunter
Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup
Jesse Belvin
Tommy James & the Shondells
Moody Blues
Barry White
Jethro Tull
Harold Melvin & the Blue Notes
Steve Miller Band
Big Maybelle
Pointer Sisters
Roy Milton
Paul Revere & the Raiders
Jan & Dean
Cliff Richard
Stylistics
Three Dog Night

[Bruce]

Going over it in my head, how long have these acts been eligible, and have they ever been even nominated?

- The Smiths
- Pixies
- Sonic Youth
- The Cure
- Joy Division
- New Order
- Lou Reed
- John Cale
- Iggy Pop
- Big Star
- Kraftwerk
- Captain Beefheart
- Roxy Music
- Brian Eno
- Willie Nelson
- Merle Haggard
- Patsy Cline
- Dolly Parton
- Waylon Jennings
- George Jones
- Eurythmics
- Kate Bush
- Little Feat
- Siousxie and the Banshees
- Buzzcocks
- New York Dolls
- Echo and the Bunnymen
- The Jesus and Mary Chain
- Nick Drake
- Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds
- Love

Considering how influential, critically acclaimed, and (in some cases) fairly popular all of the aforementioned acts have been, I find it quite hard to believe that they wouldn't be at least considered for the Hall, let alone inducted. Then again, it is R&R Hall of Fame, controlled by the guys at Rolling Stone and the Village Voice, so what do you expect.

Couldn't you tyhink of ONE black act that should be on your list?

[John]

This is the first nominee list in years that's solid. Nirvana, The Replacements, The Zombies, NWA, Cat Stevens, Hall and Oates and Peter Gabriel are all on a short list of bands who are no longer playing that should be in. There's still some obvious exclusions but this list is an improvement on years past.

[luvulongTIM]

No Kraftwerk, which I continue to find absurd.

Nirvana's a shoo-in, of course, but who else? The only act I feel is completely undeserving is Kiss, but I really don't know much by Paul Butterfield Blues Band or Linda Ronstadt. I never know how to judge acts like the Zombies or N.W.A. where they have only one good album, but that one album is massively influential.

I just had a random thought - isn't Bjork eligible for induction? Her "debut" album came out in 1977, after all.

Ronstant had some great songs in Spanish. A lot of people knock her for that but Vicky Carr did the same thing only she transitioned from Spanish to English at the height of her popularity. Maybe because most of the songs Ronstandt did were old folk covers but she did a lot of covers in English as well. She gets some critical props when she teams with Amy Lou Harris who they love so she may stand a chance at getting in. I guess she'd be the Donna Summer of this year if she actually gets in. Sandra Berhart would likely induct her since she's been a life long fan as she told Nic Hartcourt.

[Nassim]

Surprised not to see Bon Jovi, disappointed not to see De La Soul and Kraftwerk.

My ballot would be :

Nirvana (2013): 1st year of eligibility/1st nomination
Kiss (1999)- 2nd nomination
Hall and Oates (1997)- 1st nomination
The Replacements (2006)- 1st nomination
Peter Gabriel (2002)- 1st nomination

Nirvana is a shoe-in ; thanks to Daft Punk's album I think Chic will finally enter the Hall too.
Then I don't know, I guess because of the Hall trying to be diverse or vote splitting, Deep Purple and Kiss will have troubles making it both, so I'd bet on Deep Purple (and they both will probably steal lots of Yes votes).
Linda Ronstadt so there is a woman and as number 5... no idea ! Someone between N.W.A., Hall and Oates and Peter Gabriel I guess.

[Listyguy]

Hopefully Hall and Oates didn't get in. Although I wouldn't be ecstatic if Kiss got in, I certainly wouldn't mind. I'd love to see the Replacements get in though.

[Harold]

- Love

Couldn't you think of ONE black act that should be on your list?

Arthur Lee of Love is black (as is guitarist John Echols). Also, Bruce, in your usual haste to prove how unenlightened we all are, you (conveniently) managed to omit the bottom part of Jimmy's list. The very next name after Love was Janet Jackson, and the last time I checked, Janet Jackson is African-American. Granted, one and two-fifth/sixth black artists obviously isn't a whole lot, but still.

[DocBrown]

The hall of fame is located in the USA, where hardly anybody has ever heard of Bjork. I never heard of her until I came to this site.

http://www.npr.org/search/index.php?searchinput=bjork

Gosh, only 295 stories on the USA's National Public Radio. Poor Bjork, it's obvious why no one's ever heard of her

[Kingoftonga]

Going over it in my head, how long have these acts been eligible, and have they ever been even nominated?

Yikes! Some of those I had just assumed were already in (Smiths, Pixies, Joy Division, Eno). I guess they don't fall on the short list of acts that Jann Wenner wants to schmooze with.

I feel like the Hall is already running out of the kind of iconic, larger-than-life 60s/70s rock star that it was created to celebrate. It'll be interesting to see who they're nominating in 10 years time, when the number of those stars has dried up considerably.

[JR]

Bjork has been one of the most acclaimed female acts of the last 20 years- but, she's never been mainstream, and I think, to a certain degree, there has to be some level of mainstream awareness. There probably are a bunch of people who still have never heard her music.

The lack of nods for acts like Whitney Houston and Janet Jackson show that it will not be easy for the "divas" of pop and R&B.

I like a lot of Hall and Oates' music, but Kraftwerk has been more acclaimed and viewed as more influential than the duo.

[Bruce]

Also, Bruce, in your usual haste to prove how unenlightened we all are, you (conveniently) managed to omit the bottom part of Jimmy's list.

I certainly did not, Harold. He edited the post and added those names after my post.

[Harold]

Also, Bruce, in your usual haste to prove how unenlightened we all are, you (conveniently) managed to omit the bottom part of Jimmy's list.

I certainly did not, Harold. He edited the post and added those names after my post.

I apologize. I saw both posts later and didn't realize that Jackson's name had been added after your initial response. Love was there to begin with, though, and two of its members are black, so for whatever it's worth you did miss that. (The counter, I suppose, would be that Love's music isn't really "black music," so they don't count.)

[Harold]

The hall of fame is located in the USA, where hardly anybody has ever heard of Bjork. I never heard of her until I came to this site.

http://www.npr.org/search/index.php?searchinput=bjork

Gosh, only 295 stories on the USA's National Public Radio. Poor Bjork, it's obvious why no one's ever heard of her

Doc, I'm pretty sure that citing the frequency with which someone's mentioned on NPR isn't going to score any points with Bruce in terms of proving "popularity."

[Live in Phoenix]

The Hall of Fame is goofy. If they just want to celebrate popular and/or influential acts from the past, they might as well be very inclusive, instead of acting like you need their dinosaur approval to think that [overlooked artist] is actually, indeed, finally, yes, a great act, thanks for asking us. It seems like the HOF could just as well not exist, except as a spiffy museum.

Bjork is going to be seen as having started in 1993. Anyone familiar with rock music in that decade would easily be familiar with her.

[DocBrown]

Although KingofTonga is technically correct. It is 25 years after the first release by an artist, so in 2018, Bjork will be in her 41st year of eligibility. That beats Rush by one year, who had to wait 40 years.

Not that Bjork will ever be nominated.

[Bruce]

Although KingofTonga is technically correct. It is 25 years after the first release by an artist, so in 2018, Bjork will be in her 41st year of eligibility.

You first become eligible 25 years after your first release so it would be her 16th year of eligibility in 2018.

[Live in Phoenix]

I assume the HOF is conveniently overlooking her juvenilia, not that I blame them. (It'd make for an interesting page to list the AM top 100 artists by their first recorded appearance... Likely it precedes what we usually know by a solo artist by several years, e.g. Lou Reed recording doo wop in 1958.)

[Bruce]

I assume the HOF is conveniently overlooking her juvenilia, not that I blame them. (It'd make for an interesting page to list the AM top 100 artists by their first recorded appearance... Likely it precedes what we usually know by a solo artist by several years, e.g. Lou Reed recording doo wop in 1958.)

I don't think the HOF is overlooking that early Bjork release, I think they just don't see her as a worthy candidate. As for the Lou Reed doo wop record, whatever that is, unless it came out as by "Lou Reed" or some other name he was using, he would not be eligible as a solo artist based on that release. If he was singing in a doo wop group like Marvin Gaye was in the Moonglows then, it would not make him eligible as a solo act.

[Live in Phoenix]

I don't think the HOF is overlooking that early Bjork release, I think they just don't see her as a worthy candidate. As for the Lou Reed doo wop record, whatever that is, unless it came out as by "Lou Reed" or some other name he was using, he would not be eligible as a solo artist based on that release. If he was singing in a doo wop group like Marvin Gaye was in the Moonglows then, it would not make him eligible as a solo act.

Lou recorded a single called "Leave Her for Me" with the Jades. It's true that unless the group had been named after him, the song wouldn't be eligible under "Lou Reed." (Along these lines, I think Eric Clapton's gotten inducted 3 times, under various lineups.) I doubt the song or group was of any significance, just as a musician's "My Happiness" moment which is special in its own little way.

[Bruce]

I don't think the HOF is overlooking that early Bjork release, I think they just don't see her as a worthy candidate. As for the Lou Reed doo wop record, whatever that is, unless it came out as by "Lou Reed" or some other name he was using, he would not be eligible as a solo artist based on that release. If he was singing in a doo wop group like Marvin Gaye was in the Moonglows then, it would not make him eligible as a solo act.

Lou recorded a single called "Leave Her for Me" with the Jades. It's true that unless the group had been named after him, the song wouldn't be eligible under "Lou Reed." (Along these lines, I think Eric Clapton's gotten inducted 3 times, under various lineups.) I doubt the song or group was of any significance, just as a musician's "My Happiness" moment which is special in its own little way.

Looks like he wrote the song. It's pretty bad.

[Live in Phoenix]

Didn't say it was special in a good way!

[JR]

Perhaps the Hall is overlooking that album Bjork made when she was 12- it then was 16 years until she released her second solo album, Debut.

She's certainly largely acclaimed- but she does lack that mainstream appeal that would make her an instant shoo-in.

[DocBrown]

There was also an important music news release this week (since it's pretty well agreed the Hall of Fame is irrelevant);
the SXSW lineup!

http://sxsw.com/music/news/2013/2014-sx ... -round-one

[Mindrocker]

Although KingofTonga is technically correct. It is 25 years after the first release by an artist, so in 2018, Bjork will be in her 41st year of eligibility. That beats Rush by one year, who had to wait 40 years.

Not that Bjork will ever be nominated.

I´m pretty sure Björk does not give a flying fuck for not being nominated by the hall of fame. I actually think she´d be seriously embarrased if one day by coincidence she would be.

And rightly so. The R´n´R Hall of fame has the coolness factor of a 65-year old bellydancer.

[JimmyJazz]

I've never visited the Hall myself, but I have heard from some that it is actually a pretty good and interesting museum to visit. I think I even heard that they have had exhibitions on acts who aren't even in the Hall, like Joy Division and Sonic Youth. This is not surprising, though, since that Hall of Fame 500 Songs list features, I believe, 2 Smiths songs, and they are still not in either.

I have a pretty ambivalent relationship with the Hall. On the one hand, I think most of the acts they have inducted throughout the years have all been worthy and important. Yet, they also ignore way too many acts who are extremely important and influential, while choosing to induct acts who were popular and good, but not nearly as important.

[Live in Phoenix]

It kind of reminds me of a Keith Richards quote about rock and roll, "No one can control it," made I think in regards to how it drives the kids wild, but it also lends itself to how the HOF can't definitively house R n' R in either a museum or a list that they put together. I don't think of the Hall enough to hate it, though.

[Bruce]

choosing to induct acts who were popular and good, but not nearly as important.

Who gets to define what is important?

[JR]

(Perhaps the newer thread could be merged with this one?)

Inductees have been announced. This is the number of years the new inductees had to wait before induction:

Nirvana: 0 (First-year-eligible inductee)
Kiss: 14
Hall & Oates: 16
Cat Stevens: 22
Peter Gabriel: 11
Linda Ronstadt: 19

Shows how much more regarded an act like Nirvana has been compared to the others.

[Bruce]

(Perhaps the newer thread could be merged with this one?)

Inductees have been announced. This is the number of years the new inductees had to wait before induction:

Nirvana: 0 (First-year-eligible inductee)
Kiss: 14
Hall & Oates: 16
Cat Stevens: 22
Peter Gabriel: 11
Linda Ronstadt: 19

Shows how much more regarded an act like Nirvana has been compared to the others.

If Cobain had just quit music instead of killing himself they probably never get in.

[Nassim]

(Perhaps the newer thread could be merged with this one?)

Inductees have been announced. This is the number of years the new inductees had to wait before induction:

Nirvana: 0 (First-year-eligible inductee)
Kiss: 14
Hall & Oates: 16
Cat Stevens: 22
Peter Gabriel: 11
Linda Ronstadt: 19

Shows how much more regarded an act like Nirvana has been compared to the others.

If Cobain had just quit music instead of killing himself they probably never get in.

Come on, stop trolling for once, even you have to agree on this one : Nevermind sold 30 millions albums worldwide and over 7 millions in the US and they got 3 #1 albums overall. They had critical and commercial success, sounds like the best recipe for entering the HOF.

[JR]

Nassim- the commercial success would not be a big factor, though. The impact and level of acclaim for the albums and songs is what made Nirvana a no-brainer first-year-eligible inductee. The albums did very well even on year0end lists (back when there weren' t as many as there would be in the late 90s and beyond).

The commercial success, though, probably gives it an edge over someone like Bjork, someone who's had a lot of acclaim, but isn't really a mainstream name.

[Nassim]

Nassim- the commercial success would not be a big factor, though. The impact and level of acclaim for the albums and songs is what made Nirvana a no-brainer first-year-eligible inductee. The albums did very well even on year0end lists (back when there weren' t as many as there would be in the late 90s and beyond).

The commercial success, though, probably gives it an edge over someone like Bjork, someone who's had a lot of acclaim, but isn't really a mainstream name.

Impact sure is important, not convinced that acclaimed has ever been the main criteria for entering the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame though !
And well, all Bruce usually cares for are sales, grammy and "would a guy on the street be able to cite one of their song?".

[Bruce]

[ even you have to agree on this one : Nevermind sold 30 millions albums worldwide and over 7 millions in the US and they got 3 #1 albums overall. They had critical and commercial success, sounds like the best recipe for entering the HOF.

The third number one came after he was dead, so it may not have done much if not for all the publicity over that.

"Frampton Comes Alive" was even bigger in its day (#1 for 10 weeks in the USA) and he's not even getting nominated. Maybe he needed to kill himself to get in.

BTW, that comment I posted was not mine although I agree with it. It was posted by someone in the Bob Dylan Usenet group that I am in.

[Bruce]

Nevermind sold 30 millions albums worldwide

Wikipedia puts it at 26 million.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ing_albums

"Slipper When Wet" sold more copies and Bon Jovi has not even been nominated yet despite also being the highest grossing live act of the past 20 years.

[DDD troll account]

Nirvana was an immensely influential act and with the success of "Nevermind" changed the face of mainstream rock completely. To say they only got in because Cobain killed himself is ridiculous. Bruce, which acts since the 1990s do you see as more deserving than Nirvana? Or do you think nothing post-1989 belongs?

[DocBrown]

Who gets to define what is important?

Clearly, Paul has come up with the only tenable solution. We allow Bruce to define what is important, and continue to quietly mutter about trivialities in his shadow.

[JR]

I do agree that level of acclaim isn't the barometer for all acts that get into the Hall of Fame- some acts inducted in recent years are not ranked all that high at AM, for instance. But, it usually is a pretty big factor for first-year-eligible inductees.

[Bruce]

Nirvana was an immensely influential act and with the success of "Nevermind" changed the face of mainstream rock completely. To say they only got in because Cobain killed himself is ridiculous. Bruce, which acts since the 1990s do you see as more deserving than Nirvana? Or do you think nothing post-1989 belongs?

Nobody who started after 1988 is eligible yet. I think they should be concentrating on deserving acts who have been eligible for decades and are still not in. Most have never even been nominated.

Wynonie Harris
Roy Brown
The Clovers
The Dominoes
The Ravens
Johnny Ace
Chuck Willis
The Mills Brothers
Chicago

I also think that NWA changed the face of mainstream rock just as much or more than Nirvana, unless you are claiming that hip hop is not part of mainstream rock.

[Blanco]

Yess! Nirvana it's in! weheeee!

[Blanco]

Makes me want to give a speech. : ')

[JimmyJazz]

Yess! Nirvana it's in! weheeee!

times all of this by five!

[Bruce]

Bruce, which acts since the 1990s do you see as more deserving than Nirvana?

Jay-Z
Kanye West
Radiohead
Eminem
R. Kelly
Beyonce
Mariah Carey

[JimmyJazz]

Bruce mentions Radiohead positively!!! The whole world has changed!!!