Site update

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Henrik
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Site update

Post by Henrik » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:38 am

There will be no complete update this month. I just haven't had enough time. But I will have preliminary all time lists (3000 albums and 6000 songs) by June 30th, and I would be happy to share them with you. The remaining work is primarily to create the album and song pages with links to every list the album/song appears on. I haven't even started that work yet.

I also would like to arrange the files a bit different. At least have a unique folder for images. So I might set up a beta version of the site update, where I will add bits and pieces during July. This could also be an opportunity for you to catch errors, and after that I could update the lists by the end of July.

I'm sorry if this doesn't meet your expectations. But I have learned to not pressure myself too hard against planned site updates, and let my family come first.

Oh, and one more thing. My greatest wish is that the Spotify lists will be completed by mid-July, so I can put the pieces together before the end of the month. So if you want to help me out, that link is the place to go.
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Re: Site update

Post by jamieW » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:16 am

No need at all to apologize, Henrik. Regardless of when updates happen, this site always more than exceeds my expectations! And I agree completely that family needs to come first. I've felt bad that I haven't been able to help with information you've needed this year for the update, but I've been ridiculously busy myself and wanted to make sure I spend enough free time with my family. I look forward to the update whenever it comes and greatly appreciate all the work you put into it. You should never have to hurry.

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Re: Site update

Post by notdarkyet » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:36 am

I agree entirely with jamie's sentiments and am eternally grateful for all you provide through this site. One question about these preliminary lists. Will they be fully compiled or are they likely to have some additions between now and next month when they are completely implemented? Thank you again for all that you do!

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Henrik
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Re: Site update

Post by Henrik » Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:25 pm

Thanks for your kind words!

Whether the lists are going to change during July depends on the error findings.
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Re: Site update

Post by JR » Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:47 pm

Family come first? What kind of attitude is that? : :P

Thanks for the update, and no need to apologize for a thing. Preliminary lists would be cool to see until the site is officially updated. Will you be able to post a list of the lists used?

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Re: Site update

Post by Henrik » Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:53 pm

JR wrote:Will you be able to post a list of the lists used?
I know you have asked about this for quite some time. But that's part of the work I have left and I have a couple other things to do before I get to that.
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Re: Site update

Post by Harold » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:08 pm

Echoing the previous comments, Henrik. The fact that you've been able to keep this site going for so long in the face of all your other ever-growing responsibilities, especially given the massive amount of work that needs to go into every update, is remarkable. Take as much time as you need. Looking forward to those preliminary lists!

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Re: Site update

Post by JR » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:10 pm

Thanks, H. The AM faithful will be here to appreciate your hard work when it's ready to be unveiled, in all stages. :)

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Re: Site update

Post by Dan » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:12 pm

Henrik, I'm glad to hear that you are not going to burn yourself out over this update. I think people will be delighted with the preliminary all time lists at the end of the month. The rest can wait until you're ready.

Thank you...

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Re: Site update

Post by mattadam » Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:00 pm

The amount of pleasure I get from this site is so massive, that it seems almost impossible. It's just music, right?

Thanks!!!!
Best album of 2013: Reflektor by Arcade Fire

How did it only get an 80 on metacritic!?

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Re: Site update

Post by walrusxtreme » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:37 pm

Just curious, are you going to be adding many non-2013 albums in this update?

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Re: Site update

Post by JR » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:11 pm

With all the lists eligible to add (but not knowing exactly which ones are being added at this time), I'd think there will be some that have enough to be added (as Bubbling Under or in rank). Of course, Henrik would know for sure. :)

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Re: Site update

Post by Henrik » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:39 pm

walrusxtreme wrote:Just curious, are you going to be adding many non-2013 albums in this update?
I have only added a handful of albums. Hopefully many more in next year's update.
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Re: Site update

Post by JR » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:51 pm

Out of curiosity, are Janet Jackson's janet. or The Velvet Rope among that handful? They have some appearances in those to-be-added lists. If not, maybe next year, or their points may fall short. :)
Last edited by JR on Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Site update

Post by JimmyJazz » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:23 pm

No worries, Henrik! Just having the chance to see the lists at the end of the month is awesome! Never feel like you have to sacrifice your personal life for our own selfish list addictions :mrgreen:

This site is a true wonder on the Internet, and it is truly amazing that you have been able to keep it going for over ten years (is it?).

Best wishes to you and your family! :greetings-waveyellow:

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Re: Site update

Post by VanillaFire1000 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:22 pm

As long as it happens, then I'm happy.

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Re: Site update

Post by Jonathon » Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:53 pm

So the raw rankings will be available soon? Thank you for all your hard work, Henrik.

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Re: Site update

Post by Nick » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:46 am

I'm going to repeat the same sentiment that everyone else in this thread has already expressed. You've done such great work on this site, Henrik, a bit of a delay is more than understandable!

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Re: Site update

Post by Henrik » Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:38 am

Thanks everyone for your patience and kind words!!

I think I have mentioned before (a long time ago) that I have a database agreement with a company. Each year I provide them with an update of the AM albums and songs (flat files).

I have some good news (for me) and some bad news (for you) regarding this.

The good news is that I thought the business agreement said updates on June 30th (mid-year), but when I checked the agreement today it actually says July 30th, which means I have another month to work on the data before I need to provide the company with new data.

The bad news is that this means I can make more changes (if necessary) to the data than I thought. I would like to take this opportunity to keep the update to myself during July. I would love to share new rankings with you, but I am worried that preliminary versions (and differences between them) will raise a lot of questions that will slow me down a bit. I hope you understand me.
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Re: Site update

Post by JR » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:01 pm

I don't see how that's bad news- if you're aiming for the most accurate update possible, this is a good thing. We'll be here. :)

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Re: Site update

Post by Luke JR68 » Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:37 pm

That's perfectly fine Henrik, as JR said, a more accurate update definitely trumps a speedier one and anyway, what's good for you is good for us in the long run :D

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Re: Site update

Post by Bruno » Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:57 pm

Sounds good news for me, Henrik!
Thanks a lot! ;)

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Re: Site update

Post by Jonathon » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:56 am

I can't say I'm not a little disappointed, but I still understand completely.

44,640 minutes to go. :happy-partydance:

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Re: Site update

Post by Brando » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:56 am

:'(

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Re: Site update

Post by Henrik » Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:41 am

JR wrote:Out of curiosity, are Janet Jackson's janet. or The Velvet Rope among that handful?
Both!
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Re: Site update

Post by JR » Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:14 pm

Much thanks for the heads-up, Henrik. :D (and that's even without their appearance on the bLISTerd list that won't be added this time out).

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Re: Site update

Post by Live in Phoenix » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:24 pm

Jonathon wrote:44,640 minutes to go. :happy-partydance:
Here's a Johnny Cash song you can sing, with your own modifications, while you're waiting :mrgreen:

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Re: Site update

Post by letmeintomyzone » Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:09 pm

Quick question, is Deafheaven's Sunbather going to be in the next update?

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Re: Site update

Post by Harold » Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:41 pm

letmeintomyzone wrote:Quick question, is Deafheaven's Sunbather going to be in the next update?
If you find the thread a little further down titled "Urgent! Help with ratings for 2013 albums," and then open the attached Excel file, you'll find a list of all the 2013 albums (and songs) that will be added to the AM database in the forthcoming update. Sunbather is there, and you can be fairly certain that any album that ranks as high on an EOY spreadsheet as that one did for 2013 will end up with a decent rank on the all-time list.

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Re: Site update

Post by letmeintomyzone » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:00 pm

^

My computer can't seen to access it.

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Re: Site update

Post by letmeintomyzone » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:33 pm

**

Oh, it's working now. Actually, I thought Sunbather would be higher, and Yeezus is shockingly high.

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Re: Site update

Post by Henry » Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:28 pm

letmeintomyzone wrote:**

Oh, it's working now. Actually, I thought Sunbather would be higher, and Yeezus is shockingly high.
How do you tell from the spreadsheet how high each of the albums is placed?

I see ID numbers, but no rankings.

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Re: Site update

Post by Harold » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:21 am

Henry wrote:
letmeintomyzone wrote:**

Oh, it's working now. Actually, I thought Sunbather would be higher, and Yeezus is shockingly high.
How do you tell from the spreadsheet how high each of the albums is placed?

I see ID numbers, but no rankings.
He's probably looking at the EOY albums spreadsheet.

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Re: Site update

Post by Jonathon » Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:21 pm

As long as we're asking you questions about the update, which artist benefited the most from the song expansion?

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Re: Site update

Post by JimmyJazz » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:43 pm

Jonathon wrote:As long as we're asking you questions about the update, which artist benefited the most from the song expansion?
Most likely artists that are more known for focusing on singles and songs, ranging from old jazz and rock and roll performers to major pop acts like Madonna and Michael Jackson. This assumption also partly based on the types of all-time song lists being included for this update.

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Re: Site update

Post by Jonathon » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:48 am

JimmyJazz wrote:
Jonathon wrote:As long as we're asking you questions about the update, which artist benefited the most from the song expansion?
Most likely artists that are more known for focusing on singles and songs, ranging from old jazz and rock and roll performers to major pop acts like Madonna and Michael Jackson. This assumption also partly based on the types of all-time song lists being included for this update.
I'm actually expecting the opposite. Artists like Madonna and Michael Jackson have a top 9 etched out. If they get 10-15 new songs, it will just be statistical noise.

I'm expecting artists like Frank Zappa and Wilco to benefit the most. Artists with really high album rankings, but only bubblers for songs. When those 5-6 bubblers become ranked songs, it could theoretically cause a ranking jump of 10 spots, given a low song ranking wouldn't be weighing them down anymore.

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Re: Site update

Post by JimmyJazz » Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:18 am

Jonathon wrote:
JimmyJazz wrote:
Jonathon wrote:As long as we're asking you questions about the update, which artist benefited the most from the song expansion?
Most likely artists that are more known for focusing on singles and songs, ranging from old jazz and rock and roll performers to major pop acts like Madonna and Michael Jackson. This assumption also partly based on the types of all-time song lists being included for this update.
I'm actually expecting the opposite. Artists like Madonna and Michael Jackson have a top 9 etched out. If they get 10-15 new songs, it will just be statistical noise.

I'm expecting artists like Frank Zappa and Wilco to benefit the most. Artists with really high album rankings, but only bubblers for songs. When those 5-6 bubblers become ranked songs, it could theoretically cause a ranking jump of 10 spots, given a low song ranking wouldn't be weighing them down anymore.
Oh, of course, artists with a number of bubbling under songs will benefit. What I was trying to say was that there are a very significant amount of artist-specific lists that are being factored in this new update, none of which are devoted to the artists you mentioned. Add in the large number lists devoted to pre-1960s music, which will benefit many older songs-oriented acts that either have many bubbling unders themselves or will potentially gain many songs within the AM rankings, and a potentially large number of artist rankings could be quite shaken up. The only artists who will be hurt the most are the ones that won't gain many songs in the update, besides not having many to begin with. Many modern jazz performers, like Miles Davis and John Coltrane come to mind.

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Re: Site update

Post by Jonathon » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:08 am

JimmyJazz wrote:
Oh, of course, artists with a number of bubbling under songs will benefit. What I was trying to say was that there are a very significant amount of artist-specific lists that are being factored in this new update, none of which are devoted to the artists you mentioned. Add in the large number lists devoted to pre-1960s music, which will benefit many older songs-oriented acts that either have many bubbling unders themselves or will potentially gain many songs within the AM rankings, and a potentially large number of artist rankings could be quite shaken up. The only artists who will be hurt the most are the ones that won't gain many songs in the update, besides not having many to begin with. Many modern jazz performers, like Miles Davis and John Coltrane come to mind.

:-( as if Miles wasn't too low on the big list as is.

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Re: Site update

Post by JimmyJazz » Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:47 am

Adding upon my mention of artist-specific lists, here are the artists who have lists devoted to their music exclusively in this update:

Led Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones - 3 lists each

Bob Marley and Bruce Springsteen - 2 lists each

And the following artists with a list each:

Kanye West
David Bowie
Beach Boys
Neil Young
Madonna
Bob Dylan
Beatles
Aphex Twin
AC/DC
Nirvana
Michael Jackson

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Re: Site update

Post by Henrik » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:26 am

It's fun to read your speculations. I don't want to give any preliminary results though. I hope that's ok.
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Re: Site update

Post by Jonathon » Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:38 am

JimmyJazz wrote:Adding upon my mention of artist-specific lists, here are the artists who have lists devoted to their music exclusively in this update:

Led Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones - 3 lists each

Bob Marley and Bruce Springsteen - 2 lists each

And the following artists with a list each:

Kanye West
David Bowie
Beach Boys
Neil Young
Madonna
Bob Dylan
Beatles
Aphex Twin
AC/DC
Nirvana
Michael Jackson
It's worth noting, most of those artists have at least 6-7 songs on the site...some have 9-10. Say Nirvana added 9 more ranked songs to the 6 they have. Only the three highest would matter, and those will probably all be in the 2500-4000 range, so it would barely effect their artist rank.

It's also worth noting that 9 of the artists you listed are already in the top 20 of all time, where it's nigh impossible to make any headway. The only artists we've seen make any significant leaps in the top 20 in the past 10 years are Radiohead and Neil Young. Everyone else is almost set in stone. The artists who are going to benefit the most (i.e. gain the most ranking spots) soley on the song expansion are going to be ones that aren't in the top 50 already, simply because the top 50 is too competitive.

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Re: Site update

Post by Jonathon » Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:42 am

Henrik wrote:It's fun to read your speculations. I don't want to give any preliminary results though. I hope that's ok.
Lol. Glad we're amusing you!

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Re: Site update

Post by Nick » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:06 pm

Here are some of my predictions!

New artist rankings-

Kanye West: ~39
Arcade Fire: ~46
Daft Punk: ~76
Vampire Weekend: ~142
Nick Cave: ~72
The National: ~138
My Bloody Valentine: ~97
Arctic Monkeys: ~179

"My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy" rockets into the top 150 albums, becoming the top album of 2010.

"Get Lucky" debuts in the top 50 songs.

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Re: Site update

Post by JR » Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:28 pm

So, essentially, if an act's top nine songs are ranked pretty well, their artist rank will be good. Do albums factor into artist rank similarly to songs? Sure it was mentioned before, but not recalling. Thanks. :)

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Re: Site update

Post by Jonathon » Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:33 am

JR wrote:So, essentially, if an act's top nine songs are ranked pretty well, their artist rank will be good. Do albums factor into artist rank similarly to songs? Sure it was mentioned before, but not recalling. Thanks. :)
If I recall correctly, songs are weighed 0.6 to albums.

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Re: Site update

Post by Listyguy » Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:02 pm

Nick wrote: "Get Lucky" debuts in the top 50 songs.
The overall top 50 songs? That's a bit far fetched. I could picture top 200, but not top 50.

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Re: Site update

Post by JR » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:09 pm

Since it's only a "handful" of albums that will be added with the new update, I'm going to guess that Madonna's Erotica and Bedtime Stories won't be part of the mix (one new appearance for them was the Slant 90s list). I can't recall Bedtime Stories appearing on any other major all-time list.
Last edited by JR on Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Site update

Post by Jonathon » Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:50 pm

Listyguy wrote:
Nick wrote: "Get Lucky" debuts in the top 50 songs.
The overall top 50 songs? That's a bit far fetched. I could picture top 200, but not top 50.

"Midnight City" and "Pyramids" both debuted in the low 100s, and didn't have the same universal #1 status "Get Lucky" did.

Top 50 is extreme, but "Get Lucky" breaks top 100.

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Re: Site update

Post by BleuPanda » Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:48 pm

I am getting increasingly excited as we get closer to the end of the month. Can't wait to see the bigger song list.

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Re: Site update

Post by JR » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:51 pm

So there will be 6,000 ranked songs, based on what Henrik had posted. And then more bubbling under, of course. Should be a fun time for Acclaimed-aholics. 8-)

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