Acclaimed Music Forums

(Top 500, are you crazy?)

Drum roll, please. Lady and Gentlemen, it is time for the 5th edition of the Acclaimed Music Forum Top Albums Poll!

It has been traditional to expand the top list for each subsequent poll beginning with 100 albums in the 2005 edition, led by Jacek and culminating in lists of 500 for the 2011 edition, hosted by Jackson. I am ending that tradition today; 500 albums is quite enough.

It has also become a tradition that each year's roll outs are more professional and informative than the past, culminating with the great Artists' Poll (Nassim) '80's Poll (ListyGuy and Moonbeam) and Year End Polls (Nick) of 2013. This tradition will also come to an end this year, where I will set the bar sufficiently low that any future hosts can say "Well at least this is better than that idiot DocBrown's fiasco" Towards that end, some of the features planned for this year include:
- musical research exclusively cut and pasted from the Turkmenistan edition of Wikipedia!
- album artwork reproduced in crayon by my grand-daughter(age 17 months)!, and
- a scoring system, which, while not yet finalized will involve a quart of Johnnie Walker and a dartboard!

So what you have to do is submit a list to me consisting of up to 500 (!) of your favourite albums; not neccesarily the "best" or most famous albums, but your personal favourites, including guilty pleasures, one hit wonders and novelty band rarities. Lists must be received no later than September 30, 2014 at midnight forum time to be included, including the usual fudge factor for procrastination. Lists may be PM'ed via the forum or you may e-mail lists, preferably as an attached Excel spreadsheet, to cedarcy9@gmail.com. All lists will be posted in the forum after computation, so Henrik will no longer be able to hide the fact that "Songs of Leonard Cohen" has been supplanted atop his list by Aqua's "Aquarium".

Lists should take the format "Placement; Artist; Album" and need only include the date where ambiguity might exist (thank you, Jaques Brel). Comments are welcome; however please do not embed album artwork or youtube clips into your list. If there is something you absolutely must share, provide weblinks only. I do have a data limit, which Mindrocker will probably exceed alone.

The rollout will begin by mid-October to be completed by month end, leaving plenty of time for the usual recounts, bickering and recriminations.

Woo! I just remade my list a couple days ago, but I'm going to wait to send mine in so I can listen to some more albums. There are a couple albums by bands I just got around to that I'm sure will crack my top 500.

I assume compilations are not eligible?

He said EPs and Compilations aren't allowed in the opening post.

The real question is, do EP Compilations count? i.e. Bikini Kill's The C.D. Version of the First Two Records or The Beta Bands' The Three EP's.

BleuPanda wrote:He said EPs and Compilations aren't allowed in the opening post.

The real question is, do EP Compilations count? i.e. Bikini Kill's The C.D. Version of the First Two Records or The Beta Bands' The Three EP's.

And add to that list Courtney Barnett's "The Double EP: Sea of Split Peas" which I just deleted from my list. Unless there is an overwhelming hue and cry, for consistency I will opt to exclude any album identified as an EP or compilation by RYM, including, I am afraid, all of the above. However, a precedent exists in the current '70's poll for the Rolling Stone's "Metamorphis" which RYM does include as a compilation, but the wise and honourable Zorg determined was not, rather being an album of out-takes. Submit individual appeals, should the need arise, and I will make a finding based upon best available sources and whatever expert advice I might consider appropriate. My goal will always be to be consistent with Henrik's policy for the site.

Wait, does Henrik have rules against EPs? Because the two albums I listed are on the acclaimed music list, as is Pixies' Come On Pilgrim EP.

BleuPanda wrote:Wait, does Henrik have rules against EPs? Because the two albums I listed are on the acclaimed music list, as is Pixies' Come On Pilgrim EP.

Whoops, my bad. I must have mis-typed The Beta Band when I searched for it in the list (and I thought I'd seen it there). Can you tell me where the Bikini Kills falls, it doesn't come up in my search? There's also the Fugazi's "13 songs" at #1062, another EP compilation.

It has been my understanding that EP's are usually disallowed in AMF album polls, but perhaps I am mistaken.

Bikini Kill's EP and/or album comes at #2548. It's under both the Bikini Kill EP and The C.D. Version of the First Two Records.

Does classical count? I was going to put a couple Tchaikovsky ballets here (though not really caring which orchestra performed it when).

I would vote for Minor Threat EP (included in AM) too, though it won't get much votes anyway ^^

By the way I see that in AM Out of Step is considered as an EP but in wikipedia it's a studio album... Which raises the question, how do you define an EP ? The UK official chart company defines it as a release with less than 5 songs and shorter than 25 minutes. Billboard goes up to 6 tracks but in both case Minor Threat and Out of Step with 8 songs each should be considered LP...
Even allmusic seems lost, listing Out of Step in the EPs page but calling it "The only official album Minor Threat ever released".

Edit : expect also a vote for Burial's Kindred EP ! That's over 30 minutes, should qualify

I have spent half the night working out a scoring system for lists of 500 albums, and as much as I intended to steal Moonbeam's formula and adapt it to a larger pool, I have decided to use a flatter curve.

As a reminder, Moonbeam's formula for 100 scored entries is
score = 12,28344771/tan((position+10)/90)

#1 got 100 pts
#2 91.6
#3 84.4
#4 78.3
#5 73
#10 54.4
#20 35.5
#50 15.6
#100 4.5

Instead I'm going to use the formula
Score = 100 - [square root(18.5*Placement-1)]

Which results in
#1 - 100 points
#2 - 95.7
#3 - 93.9
#4 - 92.6
#5 - 91.4

#10 - 87.1
#20 - 81.3
#50 - 70.2
#100 - 57.2
#200 - 39.3
#300 - 25.6
#400 - 14.1
#500 - 3.9

While the scoring range remains similar to the prior polls, the lower half of your list will be somewhat more significant to the overall scores. That is to say your 400th album will be worth about as many points under this formula as your 275th album would have been under the other. A 137th place album will score 50 points.

Live in Phoenix wrote:Does classical count? I was going to put a couple Tchaikovsky ballets here (though not really caring which orchestra performed it when).

Of course classical albums will be welcomed, but you must provide a specific recorded performance as this is not a poll of great compositions.

BleuPanda wrote:... the two albums I listed are on the acclaimed music list, as is Pixies' Come On Pilgrim EP.

Any album listed in AM will be eligible. For EPs or compilations not listed in AM, I will use my solomonic judgement as outlined earlier.

Nassim wrote:Which raises the question, how do you define an EP ? The UK official chart company defines it as a release with less than 5 songs and shorter than 25 minutes. Billboard goes up to 6 tracks ...

Any decent hardcore punk band can squeeze at least fifteen tracks into a 25 minute album! Look at White Lung's "Deep Fantasy," 10 tracks in 22 minutes! And that's girls! They take forever!!!

I would like to petition that specific exemptions be given to specific compilations which represent all an artist's work over a short period of time that was not released as an album. (In other words, PLEASE let me vote for King of the Delta Blues! )

Nassim wrote:I would vote for Minor Threat EP (included in AM) too, though it won't get much votes anyway ^^

Currently #163 on my charts!
Not that anyone's asking, but I will always vote in favor of including EPs.

Jirin wrote:I would like to petition that specific exemptions be given to specific compilations which represent all an artist's work over a short period of time that was not released as an album. (In other words, PLEASE let me vote for King of the Delta Blues! )

I used to work with a guy named Robert Johnson, and he never understood the reference when I called him "King".

I'm sure Henrik struggles with this album on a regular basis, knowing that the argument is valid, but to bow to pressure on this one compilation will open the floodgates on other requests of a similar nature. This poll, however, is considerably less scientific than the Critics' list, with a very small pool of voters, so let me just say I may be somewhat less rigorous (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) than Henrik in weeding out irregularities. I may be curious in this ONE SPECIAL CASE to see the result myself. But no, THIS COMPILATION DOES NOT MEET THE STATED CRITERIA! Offenders will be shamed! Asterisks may be deployed!

My feelings toward compilations is whether or not the featured tracks have been on albums. For example, I'm against Bob Marley's Legend because it consists of segments from other albums that can also be featured, a Frankenstein's monster of sorts. Compilations from the pre-album era I think should be valid due to the fact that they're the only 'album' appearance for the featured songs. The songs aren't getting double representation in that situation.

BleuPanda wrote:My feelings toward compilations is whether or not the featured tracks have been on albums. For example, I'm against Bob Marley's Legend because it consists of segments from other albums that can also be featured, a Frankenstein's monster of sorts. Compilations from the pre-album era I think should be valid due to the fact that they're the only 'album' appearance for the featured songs. The songs aren't getting double representation in that situation.

This 10 inch LP would be my favorite album of all time if it was eligible:

https://rateyourmusic.com/release/comp/ ... the_blues/




A1 Lovesick Blues
A2 Moanin' the Blues
A3 The Blues Come Around
A4 I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry
B1 I'm a Long Gone Daddy
B2 My Sweet Love Ain't Around
B3 Long Gone Lonesome Blues
B4 Honky Tonk Blues

If EP's were eligible, Jar of Flies would be my #16. I'll be thinking things over all month just looking for a 501st entry.

whuntva wrote:If EP's were eligible, Jar of Flies would be my #16. I'll be thinking things over all month just looking for a 501st entry.

Jar of Flies is listed as a bubbler; it is eligible.

Obviously I hadn't given this sufficient thought before launching the poll, but I will reiterate once more; anything listed in the AM Albums list will be considered eligible.

I'm not likely to come up with a list of 500 albums. I'm expecting 200-300. So how might that change the scoring? Would my number one still be worth 100?

A suggestion.

Each voter can give a ranked list of 25 albums that they think are terrible and they will get negative points for the survey.

GucciLittlePiggy wrote:I'm not likely to come up with a list of 500 albums. I'm expecting 200-300. So how might that change the scoring? Would my number one still be worth 100?

Yes. Each placement counts for the same point value regardless of the length of list.

Bruce wrote:

BleuPanda wrote:My feelings toward compilations is whether or not the featured tracks have been on albums. For example, I'm against Bob Marley's Legend because it consists of segments from other albums that can also be featured, a Frankenstein's monster of sorts. Compilations from the pre-album era I think should be valid due to the fact that they're the only 'album' appearance for the featured songs. The songs aren't getting double representation in that situation.

This 10 inch LP would be my favorite album of all time if it was eligible:

https://rateyourmusic.com/release/comp/ ... the_blues/




A1 Lovesick Blues
A2 Moanin' the Blues
A3 The Blues Come Around
A4 I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry
B1 I'm a Long Gone Daddy
B2 My Sweet Love Ain't Around
B3 Long Gone Lonesome Blues
B4 Honky Tonk Blues

I consider this album eligible for AM! It just not included on any (or enough) critics lists.

DocBrown wrote:

BleuPanda wrote:He said EPs and Compilations aren't allowed in the opening post.

The real question is, do EP Compilations count? i.e. Bikini Kill's The C.D. Version of the First Two Records or The Beta Bands' The Three EP's.

And add to that list Courtney Barnett's "The Double EP: Sea of Split Peas" which I just deleted from my list. Unless there is an overwhelming hue and cry, for consistency I will opt to exclude any album identified as an EP or compilation by RYM, including, I am afraid, all of the above. However, a precedent exists in the current '70's poll for the Rolling Stone's "Metamorphis" which RYM does include as a compilation, but the wise and honourable Zorg determined was not, rather being an album of out-takes. Submit individual appeals, should the need arise, and I will make a finding based upon best available sources and whatever expert advice I might consider appropriate. My goal will always be to be consistent with Henrik's policy for the site.

=submitted to Honorio's will

Henrik wrote: A1 Lovesick Blues
A2 Moanin' the Blues
A3 The Blues Come Around
A4 I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry
B1 I'm a Long Gone Daddy
B2 My Sweet Love Ain't Around
B3 Long Gone Lonesome Blues
B4 Honky Tonk Blues

I consider this album eligible for AM! It just not included on any (or enough) critics lists.

It's listed as a compilation on RYM.

If YOUR rule is that the album is eligible as long as the songs had not been on an album before, then the two Robert Johnson albums should be eligible.

Bruce wrote:

Henrik wrote: A1 Lovesick Blues
A2 Moanin' the Blues
A3 The Blues Come Around
A4 I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry
B1 I'm a Long Gone Daddy
B2 My Sweet Love Ain't Around
B3 Long Gone Lonesome Blues
B4 Honky Tonk Blues

I consider this album eligible for AM! It just not included on any (or enough) critics lists.

It's listed as a compilation on RYM.

If YOUR rule is that the album is eligible as long as the songs had not been on an album before, then the two Robert Johnson albums should be eligible.

Bo Diddley's debut, your all-time favorite album, is listed on RYM as a compilation as well so I think we should take RYM's policy with a grain of salt. Not so sure about the Robert Johnson LPs. They were released more than 20 years after the actual recordings were made, I rather consider them archive releases. The songs on Hank Williams' Moanin' The Blues on the other hand were less than a few years old when the album was issued.

DocBrown wrote:

Jirin wrote:I would like to petition that specific exemptions be given to specific compilations which represent all an artist's work over a short period of time that was not released as an album. (In other words, PLEASE let me vote for King of the Delta Blues! )

I used to work with a guy named Robert Johnson, and he never understood the reference when I called him "King".

I'm sure Henrik struggles with this album on a regular basis, knowing that the argument is valid, but to bow to pressure on this one compilation will open the floodgates on other requests of a similar nature. This poll, however, is considerably less scientific than the Critics' list, with a very small pool of voters, so let me just say I may be somewhat less rigorous (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) than Henrik in weeding out irregularities. I may be curious in this ONE SPECIAL CASE to see the result myself. But no, THIS COMPILATION DOES NOT MEET THE STATED CRITERIA! Offenders will be shamed! Asterisks may be deployed!

JIRIN FEARS NO ASTERISK!!!

I'll list my top 501 so if you don't decide to include it you can slide stuff up one.

But I would be in favor of any album that allows you to argue "If albums were a thing when these singles came out it would have been an album".

When you say you want an Excel spreadsheet, do you want all of them semicolon separated in one cell per row, or spread across three cells?

I'm formatted for three cells since only the ordinal is actually important to calculations.

Ok, so the position; artist; album thing is if we send a text file, and if we send an Excel spreadsheet you want position, artist, and album as separate cells without the semicolon?

One more eligibility question. Is Smile (Not Brian Wilson's version, the reconstructed version released later) a compilation?

Jirin wrote:Ok, so the position; artist; album thing is if we send a text file, and if we send an Excel spreadsheet you want position, artist, and album as separate cells without the semicolon?

One more eligibility question. Is Smile (Not Brian Wilson's version, the reconstructed version released later) a compilation?

No. It's a re-release.

Mindrocker wrote: Bo Diddley's debut, your all-time favorite album, is listed on RYM as a compilation as well

I think that's correct. Every song on the album had been released already on singles before the album was released. Several of them had been out for well over two years already. Two of the songs had been released on a single about a month before the album came out, but the other 10 songs were just older singles.

DocBrown wrote:

Jirin wrote:Ok, so the position; artist; album thing is if we send a text file, and if we send an Excel spreadsheet you want position, artist, and album as separate cells without the semicolon?

One more eligibility question. Is Smile (Not Brian Wilson's version, the reconstructed version released later) a compilation?

No. It's a re-release.

Yeah, but the original release never happened, so it's the closest thing we have to the hypothetical original. Eh, it's only 148 on my list anyway.

DocBrown wrote:

Jirin wrote:Ok, so the position; artist; album thing is if we send a text file, and if we send an Excel spreadsheet you want position, artist, and album as separate cells without the semicolon?

One more eligibility question. Is Smile (Not Brian Wilson's version, the reconstructed version released later) a compilation?

No. It's a re-release.

But the recent Smile release is listed on AM.

DocBrown wrote:

Jirin wrote:Ok, so the position; artist; album thing is if we send a text file, and if we send an Excel spreadsheet you want position, artist, and album as separate cells without the semicolon?

One more eligibility question. Is Smile (Not Brian Wilson's version, the reconstructed version released later) a compilation?

No. It's a re-release.

To clarify; it is eligible. No, it is not a compilation.

Thank you DocBrown for running this . It's always a pleasure to take part in these polls and I liked your introduction (very funny !)
My grain of salt about it :
I think that people should be able to post their lists before the results as we do for the decade polls. Other people's lists are great sources and we have almost two months to listen to new material and recommendations. If I remember well Jirin expressed the same request. Maybe we could do that in a separate thread ?

nicolas wrote:Thank you DocBrown for running this . It's always a pleasure to take part in these polls and I liked your introduction (very funny !)
My grain of salt about it :
I think that people should be able to post their lists before the results as we do for the decade polls. Other people's lists are great sources and we have almost two months to listen to new material and recommendations. If I remember well Jirin expressed the same request. Maybe we could do that in a separate thread ?

I disagree, although obviously anyone can start a second thread (I believe that's what happened with last year's EOY Poll). My preference is to get lists in well before deadline so I'm not swamped with last minute data entry; I'm not sure that having everyone waiting to the last minute to fine tune their lists is in my best interest! Also, if I have a list in hand, it's more or less carved in stone; if they're published I have to recheck every time someone changes there mind about entry #432, no, #433. So PM your list; that will be the only data I will consider.

Personally, I don't think another seven weeks of listening is going to change my list enough to worry about. These things are subject to flux everyday, it's just a snapshot.

Bruce wrote:

Mindrocker wrote: Bo Diddley's debut, your all-time favorite album, is listed on RYM as a compilation as well

I think that's correct. Every song on the album had been released already on singles before the album was released. Several of them had been out for well over two years already. Two of the songs had been released on a single about a month before the album came out, but the other 10 songs were just older singles.

Hey, what happening? My comments get deleted minutes after posting.

Anyway, for the AM polls the rules concerning 50s albums are usually less strict. Or else a large and important chunk of albums from that decade aren't eligible (bar the odd Sinatra or jazz record).

Mindrocker wrote:

Bruce wrote:

Mindrocker wrote: Bo Diddley's debut, your all-time favorite album, is listed on RYM as a compilation as well

I think that's correct. Every song on the album had been released already on singles before the album was released. Several of them had been out for well over two years already. Two of the songs had been released on a single about a month before the album came out, but the other 10 songs were just older singles.

Hey, what happening? My comments get deleted minutes after posting.

Anyway, for the AM polls the rules concerning 50s albums are usually less strict. Or else a large and important chunk of albums from that decade aren't eligible (bar the odd Sinatra or jazz record).

Thank you Mindrocker. Obviously the consensus of the group is to apply very liberal interpretations of what constitutes an album, and I am inclined to agree (note the edit to the initial post). Let the games begin.

Edit: Perhaps due to the backup issues Henrik experienced earlier, I can't edit my initial post! Perhaps that also explains Mindrockers disappearing comments. Anyway, I planned to eliminate the EP and compilation exclusion from the initial post. I will trust in the Forum's usual good judgement and be prohibitive only when I see a flagrant abuse, OK?

DocBrown wrote: Anyway, I planned to eliminate the EP and compilation exclusion from the initial post.

DocBrown, this makes me happy. I am a huge proponent of EP-inclusion, and can never figure out why they get banned from almost every competition (we included them in Moderately Acclaimed this year [as you know] and have at least two advancing to Round 3!). I don't believe I've ever seen a convincing argument against them. They are the forgotten minority, I tell you! Anyway, thanks for being open to our list-related idiosyncrasies and super-thanks for stepping up and taking this on!

PS - Chronic Town, people, Chronic Town!

One thing that's always baffled me about polls like these is just how massive people's lists get. I find myself overthinking my decisions that it takes me hours to come up with so much as a top 50. What methodology do you usually use to come up with your lists? Because for my most recent ones, I've simply written out the name of each album/song/artist out on a tiny scrap of paper and laid those out on the floor and rearranged them, and there simply HAS to be an easier way.

acroamor wrote:One thing that's always baffled me about polls like these is just how massive people's lists get. I find myself overthinking my decisions that it takes me hours to come up with so much as a top 50. What methodology do you usually use to come up with your lists? Because for my most recent ones, I've simply written out the name of each album/song/artist out on a tiny scrap of paper and laid those out on the floor and rearranged them, and there simply HAS to be an easier way.

Start a playlist and insert each item as you go along.

acroamor wrote:One thing that's always baffled me about polls like these is just how massive people's lists get. I find myself overthinking my decisions that it takes me hours to come up with so much as a top 50. What methodology do you usually use to come up with your lists? Because for my most recent ones, I've simply written out the name of each album/song/artist out on a tiny scrap of paper and laid those out on the floor and rearranged them, and there simply HAS to be an easier way.

For me, I put on the list the obvious ones (maybe 40 or 50 albums), then I'm going on my physical and numeric collection and I choose all the album I love. In fine, I throws the less loving albums. Especially not too much reflection, instinct is important.

I started my list on RYM in mid-2013 and then just expanded it bit by bit as I listened to stuff I really like.

acroamor wrote:One thing that's always baffled me about polls like these is just how massive people's lists get. I find myself overthinking my decisions that it takes me hours to come up with so much as a top 50. What methodology do you usually use to come up with your lists? Because for my most recent ones, I've simply written out the name of each album/song/artist out on a tiny scrap of paper and laid those out on the floor and rearranged them, and there simply HAS to be an easier way.

Moonbeam's program

I've been rating, ranking, re-rating and re-ranking since 2005.

I have an excel file with every album I have listened to ranked by tier, with the top 250 always ranked individually (any album I give a 9/10 or higher is in my top 250, which means I have to move albums down when a new album enters). I'll just have to put the next few tiers in order, which I simply do by putting every album with the same score in notepad and going "I think I like Electric Warrior more than Abraxas...or maybe it's the other way around?" until I have the list in some strange order.

nicolas wrote:Thank you DocBrown for running this . It's always a pleasure to take part in these polls and I liked your introduction (very funny !)
My grain of salt about it :
I think that people should be able to post their lists before the results as we do for the decade polls. Other people's lists are great sources and we have almost two months to listen to new material and recommendations. If I remember well Jirin expressed the same request. Maybe we could do that in a separate thread ?

Agreed. The individual lists are an important aspect of this poll. It's much more fun seeing the lists come in one by one, than seeing them published all at once after the results. Strategic voting is indeed a risk, but that's kind of childish.

acroamor wrote:One thing that's always baffled me about polls like these is just how massive people's lists get. I find myself overthinking my decisions that it takes me hours to come up with so much as a top 50. What methodology do you usually use to come up with your lists? Because for my most recent ones, I've simply written out the name of each album/song/artist out on a tiny scrap of paper and laid those out on the floor and rearranged them, and there simply HAS to be an easier way.

As noted in my introduction " a scoring system, which, while not yet finalized will involve a quart of Johnnie Walker and a dartboard!"

I've got a program similar to Moonbeam's which has a best list queued up for me whenever I want.

Live in Phoenix wrote:Does classical count? I was going to put a couple Tchaikovsky ballets here (though not really caring which orchestra performed it when).

It's a very good and important question!

I love so much classical music but I am against the introduction of classical music in this list. It's too much difficult to compare an entire symphonie to a simple song.

And same question for the OST (too much great Morricone albums for me)?!