2014 Top 500 Albums of All Time Poll

[VanillaFire1000]

Wow, is it time for another list? I can't believe it has been that long. I better get working. 200 is really my limit, anything more seems...busy work.

[Henrik]

I have spent half the night working out a scoring system for lists of 500 albums, and as much as I intended to steal Moonbeam's formula and adapt it to a larger pool, I have decided to use a flatter curve.

As a reminder, Moonbeam's formula for 100 scored entries is
score = 12,28344771/tan((position+10)/90)

#1 got 100 pts
#2 91.6
#3 84.4
#4 78.3
#5 73
#10 54.4
#20 35.5
#50 15.6
#100 4.5

Instead I'm going to use the formula
Score = 100 - [square root(18.5*Placement-1)]

Which results in
#1 - 100 points
#2 - 95.7
#3 - 93.9
#4 - 92.6
#5 - 91.4

#10 - 87.1
#20 - 81.3
#50 - 70.2
#100 - 57.2
#200 - 39.3
#300 - 25.6
#400 - 14.1
#500 - 3.9

While the scoring range remains similar to the prior polls, the lower half of your list will be somewhat more significant to the overall scores. That is to say your 400th album will be worth about as many points under this formula as your 275th album would have been under the other. A 137th place album will score 50 points.

Thanks for running this poll, DocBrown!

As you probably know, I'm a fan of steep scales that gives overlooked albums a chance to make the final list. This is your poll and your decision entirely, but I think the majority of lists will be top 100s and top 200s, and for top 100 lists, #100 gets more than half of the points for #1. Thus, the total ranking will probably be very close to the number of inclusions, giving very little room for "hidden gems".

Edit: I just wanted to make a comment, without being pushy. As I said, this is entirely your decision, and I will enjoy the poll anyhow!

[Romain]

OK, with my first sort, I have a list of 842 albums.

A little cleaning and I'll be ready to published my list soon.

[DocBrown]

...I think the majority of lists will be top 100s and top 200s, and for top 100 lists, #100 gets more than half of the points for #1. Thus, the total ranking will probably be very close to the number of inclusions, giving very little room for "hidden gems".

I hope you're right, for the sake of my data entry time, but with all these lurkers coming out of the woodwork lately, I suspect I have my work cut out for me.

Tell you what, though, I will run an A-B comparison with both formulas for the top 100 when I have enough datasets to make it worthwhile.

Also, remember that the range from 1 to 2 with 100 variables is the same as the range 1 to 6 with 500 variables, so the early part of the curve is actually a little steeper (91.6 via Moonbeam vs. 90.4).

[GucciLittlePiggy]

Hey, can somebody clue me in on what Moonbeam's program is?

[DocBrown]

Hey, can somebody clue me in on what Moonbeam's program is?

You can find Moonbeam's program for rating albums (via songs) here thanks to Stephan, but the discussion in this thread is actually about a formula noted above to distribute votes in polls. Different matter altogether. Moonbeam is our other resident mathematical genius, in addition to Henrik.

Moonbeam, how was Europe?

[GucciLittlePiggy]

Thanks Doc!

[GucciLittlePiggy]

I installed the program on my computer and I'm to the point where I add my albums. Can anybody tell me if whole numbers are required for the "stars" column or can I use decimals?

[GucciLittlePiggy]

Perhaps somebody familiar with Moonbeam's program (Moonbeam himself?) could help me out. I'm trying to use the Album Ranker now and when I type "source(“Album Ranker.txt”)" I am told the following:

Error in file(filename, "r", encoding = encoding) :
cannot open the connection
In addition: Warning message:
In file(filename, "r", encoding = encoding) :
cannot open file 'Album Ranker.txt': No such file or directory

Does anybody know how I can fix whatever error is occurring?

[Listyguy]

You need to have the text file open while running the program. Also they need to be in the same folder.

[GucciLittlePiggy]

It appears I have it working. Many thanks to you, Listyguy!

[GucciLittlePiggy]

Maybe you could also help with my first question, Listyguy: do I have to input whole numbers for the "stars" column or could I put, say, a 4.5?

[Rob]

Does classical count? I was going to put a couple Tchaikovsky ballets here (though not really caring which orchestra performed it when).

It's a very good and important question!

I love so much classical music but I am against the introduction of classical music in this list. It's too much difficult to compare an entire symphonie to a simple song.

And same question for the OST (too much great Morricone albums for me)?!

I think it's simple enough if you just keep the name of the poll in mind: album poll. Classical music is usually released on album with the performer mentioned (compilations are perhaps an exception). I think classical music without orchestra mentioned are excluded from this poll by default. Movie scores shouldn't be a problem I think.

[Romain]

My list is ready. Without classical and OST.

Are we published the list here or not ?

[Henrik]

My list is ready. Without classical and OST.

Are we published the list here or not ?

NO! Why would you have to leave out Morricone?

[BleuPanda]

No list is complete without Morricone or the Twin Peaks soundtrack. We're all going to put the Twin Peaks score on our list, right? Right?

[Henrik]

Right. And so should Julee Cruise's "Floating Into the Night".

[JimmyJazz]

Does classical count? I was going to put a couple Tchaikovsky ballets here (though not really caring which orchestra performed it when).

It's a very good and important question!

I love so much classical music but I am against the introduction of classical music in this list. It's too much difficult to compare an entire symphonie to a simple song.

And same question for the OST (too much great Morricone albums for me)?!

I think it's simple enough if you just keep the name of the poll in mind: album poll. Classical music is usually released on album with the performer mentioned (compilations are perhaps an exception). I think classical music without orchestra mentioned are excluded from this poll by default. Movie scores shouldn't be a problem I think.

I can definitely understand Romain's reasoning in regards to this. "Pop" albums, which is what this whole site is devoted to, are a completely separate medium from classical music. This is not to suggest that one is inferior or superior to the other. They just have completely different focuses, strengths, and structures to them. Whenever I listen to, say a Mahler symphony or a Stravinsky ballet or a modernist piece by Reich, I am definitely listening with different ears than with a Beatles or Radiohead or Smiths album. Plus, let's be honest here, how many on this forum are very big classical buffs, besides ones I am aware, such as Romain, Sonofsamiam, Jeff, and myself? This is a very pop-music oriented site to begin with. Most of these huge symphonies or grand operas or general orchestral works wouldn't probably stand a chance. But, nevertheless, if anybody wants to put them on their lists, provided of course they site a specific recording of course, not just the piece, as that is not what the poll is focusing on, I think they should be allowed to do so.

Film soundtracks should definitely be eligible, however. I have got a few might be putting on my list actually.

Could someone share Moonbeam's program, actually?

[DocBrown]

Look up, JimmyJazz, way up!

[DocBrown]

Hey, can somebody clue me in on what Moonbeam's program is?

You can find Moonbeam's program for rating albums (via songs) here thanks to Stephan, but the discussion in this thread is actually about a formula noted above to distribute votes in polls. Different matter altogether. Moonbeam is our other resident mathematical genius, in addition to Henrik.

Moonbeam, how was Europe?

[Romain]

My list is ready. Without classical and OST.

Are we published the list here or not ?

NO! Why would you have to leave out Morricone?

Because if I put Morricone (and Twin Peaks Soundtrack ) and all the others OST I love... and classical music, it's a top 1000 albums we need.

In the last top 500 albums, a third of my choices was OST and I found this a little bit ridiculous in this website.

But it's really hard to eliminate such beautiful music.

P.S. : I recheck my list and I unintentionally put one OST and one modern classical piece....zut !

[nicolas]

My list is ready. Without classical and OST.

Are we published the list here or not ?

No, I will open a separate thread where people can post their list as recommandations, but YOU HAVE TO SEND YOUR LIST TO DOCBROWN (see the introduction on page 1)

[Pierre]

Because if I put Morricone (and Twin Peaks Soundtrack ) and all the others OST I love... and classical music, it's a top 1000 albums we need.

In the last top 500 albums, a third of my choices was OST and I found this a little bit ridiculous in this website.

But it's really hard to eliminate such beautiful music.

P.S. : I recheck my list and I unintentionally put one OST and one modern classical piece....zut !

Romain, I think you should put the OSTs in no matter what. Many AMers have very different lists from one another and from the website itself, and that's part of the charm of this game.

I MAY participate in the game this year. I have been considering it for quite some time, and I'm not sure I'll find enough free time to assemble a decent list of my favourite albums before the end of September, but I'll do my best for that. That's why I have a question about the case of one particular album.

Christophe Héral's original soundtrack for the video game Beyond Good & Evil (issued in 2003) has never experienced a formal physical or digital release, but in March 2011, as part of the marketing campaign for an HD-rerelease of the game, the OST was accidentally released for free on the game's official website. Originally, the team at Ubisoft only planned to release a partial soundtrack featuring only 30 seconds excerpts of the songs, but somewhat they released the entire tracks, and it would take a few weeks before they fixed the mistakes, even if it was too late. Therefore they have somewhat "officially" released it digitally, even though it was unintentional and only lasted for a short period of time.

Kinda tricky, heh? I may sound like I'm looking for rarities on purpose, but that's not the case; this game is my number two favourite video game of all times and I loved the music, that's why I've been looking up for it. So, is it eligible, DocBrown? I won't be bothered in any way if you consider it's not, I myself find it kinda borderline.

[Romain]

Thanks Nicolas, I believed that it's not definite yet.

[Romain]

Romain, I think you should put the OSTs in no matter what. Many AMers have very different lists from one another and from the website itself, and that's part of the charm of this game.

I MAY participate in the game this year. I have been considering it for quite some time, and I'm not sure I'll find enough free time to assemble a decent list of my favourite albums before the end of September, but I'll do my best for that. That's why I have a question about the case of one particular album.

Too late Pierre ! You honestly think I'll remake a list after hours spent to make it

But it may be an idea for future Polls : Top 100 best classical albums (I 'd rather the works than the albums for this one) and Top 100 best OST albums (although I completely agree with the point raised by JimmyJazz for the lack of voters for those "genre").

[Pierre]

Romain, I think you should put the OSTs in no matter what. Many AMers have very different lists from one another and from the website itself, and that's part of the charm of this game.

I MAY participate in the game this year. I have been considering it for quite some time, and I'm not sure I'll find enough free time to assemble a decent list of my favourite albums before the end of September, but I'll do my best for that. That's why I have a question about the case of one particular album.

Too late Pierre ! You honestly think I'll remake a list after hours spent to make it

But it may be an idea for future Polls : Top 100 best classical albums (I 'd rather the works than the albums for this one) and Top 100 best OST albums (although I completely agree with the point raised by JimmyJazz for the lack of voters for those "genre").

Well that's a shame, but I understand your decision. On my part, I will not be able to make a Top 500 in the first place without OSTs, so my question above is actually slightly more important to me than it sounds

Sure an OST-only poll could be interesting, although there would be quite a lot of listening to do I guess, and rules to define (OSTs encompass movies, TV shows and video games, after all). I would not participate in a classical music one, though, my musical experience for the genre is very short, and I don't like it nearly as much as pop music

[Listyguy]

Maybe you could also help with my first question, Listyguy: do I have to input whole numbers for the "stars" column or could I put, say, a 4.5?

Ive never actually used the "stars" column (you can leave it blank if you want), but I'd imagine a 4.5 would work.

[GucciLittlePiggy]

Maybe you could also help with my first question, Listyguy: do I have to input whole numbers for the "stars" column or could I put, say, a 4.5?

Ive never actually used the "stars" column (you can leave it blank if you want), but I'd imagine a 4.5 would work.

Thanks for your help, but I figured it out anyway last night (I don't know why my first instinct wasn't to just try it out!)
While I'm on the subject, do the stars really have an effect on the rankings? It's hard to tell so far.

And to Moonbeam, thanks for the awesome ranking program! I had always wished I could do head-to-head matchups between albums, but it just took too long to go through everything. This program is a dream come true.

[Henrik]

I think I will make a top 200 at the most this time. Partly because that will save me a huge amount of time for other things, such as including lists for the next site update, but also because I don't really want to give any points to a very acclaimed album that is only my #335 or #499. How do the rest of you guys think about such cases. Do you skip those albums to make room for some lesser known albums?

[BleuPanda]

I always include everything. I might not agree my #347 album should be the #13 on here or something, but it still is my #347. I'm not going to erase it from my list just because other people will put it even higher.

[DocBrown]

Christophe Héral's original soundtrack for the video game Beyond Good & Evil (issued in 2003) has never experienced a formal physical or digital release, but in March 2011, as part of the marketing campaign for an HD-rerelease of the game, the OST was accidentally released for free on the game's official website. Originally, the team at Ubisoft only planned to release a partial soundtrack featuring only 30 seconds excerpts of the songs, but somewhat they released the entire tracks, and it would take a few weeks before they fixed the mistakes, even if it was too late. Therefore they have somewhat "officially" released it digitally, even though it was unintentional and only lasted for a short period of time.

Kinda tricky, heh? I may sound like I'm looking for rarities on purpose, but that's not the case; this game is my number two favourite video game of all times and I loved the music, that's why I've been looking up for it. So, is it eligible, DocBrown? I won't be bothered in any way if you consider it's not, I myself find it kinda borderline.

If you can prove it exists as a release (official, bootleg or otherwise) I will honour your selection. My original post was exclusionary because I expected one particular list to involve checking the validity of 500 obscure roots 78's pressed once in upstate New York in batches of 15 and known by a handful of vocal harmony connoiseurs only, but it appears Nicolas' list won't be that bad after all. If it doesn't appear in RYM or Discogs, I would appreciate a web reference so I don't need to spend hours chasing it down. I didn't know games music WAS a thing until you and JimmyJazz started referencing it in the Critics' Lists area. I don't play games (arthritis in both hands) but when the kids were young, we usually played with the volume turned down and rocking our own playlist. Casuals!

[Jirin]

I just sent in the top 500 currently set in my program, I didn't take into account whether it was an acclaimed album or not.

[DocBrown]

I just sent in the top 500 currently set in my program, I didn't take into account whether it was an acclaimed album or not.

Makes no difference, of course, but your list had 95 "unknown" albums or 19%. And I was surprised how often we agreed.

[BleuPanda]

My problem with featuring obvious albums is that I started listening to albums once I found this site, and I've been using this as a guideline for years. I've now listened to 1364 of the top 3000, but I haven't explored much outside of the site.

[Moonbeam]

Very much looking forward to this! Since RYM allowed for track ratings, I've been listening to every album I've ever rated over again to rate the songs. I'm over 600 albums in, but I've got a lot more listening to do!

[Romain]

I think I will make a top 200 at the most this time. Partly because that will save me a huge amount of time for other things, such as including lists for the next site update, but also because I don't really want to give any points to a very acclaimed album that is only my #335 or #499. How do the rest of you guys think about such cases. Do you skip those albums to make room for some lesser known albums?

As I say before : instinct !

I never think too much when we do these games. And of course, NO stratégie. There might be forty obvious album in the hight ranking. For the other 460, I make three other categories :
1) Ultimate classic, childhood memory (1 - 40 approximately)
2) I like so much this album but it's not an ultimate classic, (40 - 100)
3) I like this album and he must be on my list but not too high .(100 - 250)
4) I like it, I play it occasionally and it's always a pleasure to listen it but frankly, it might not be there and replace with another album not in the list. (250 -500)

And when I have my four list of albums, I rank again into these ones.

[Pierre]

Christophe Héral's original soundtrack for the video game Beyond Good & Evil (issued in 2003) has never experienced a formal physical or digital release, but in March 2011, as part of the marketing campaign for an HD-rerelease of the game, the OST was accidentally released for free on the game's official website. Originally, the team at Ubisoft only planned to release a partial soundtrack featuring only 30 seconds excerpts of the songs, but somewhat they released the entire tracks, and it would take a few weeks before they fixed the mistakes, even if it was too late. Therefore they have somewhat "officially" released it digitally, even though it was unintentional and only lasted for a short period of time.

Kinda tricky, heh? I may sound like I'm looking for rarities on purpose, but that's not the case; this game is my number two favourite video game of all times and I loved the music, that's why I've been looking up for it. So, is it eligible, DocBrown? I won't be bothered in any way if you consider it's not, I myself find it kinda borderline.

If you can prove it exists as a release (official, bootleg or otherwise) I will honour your selection. My original post was exclusionary because I expected one particular list to involve checking the validity of 500 obscure roots 78's pressed once in upstate New York in batches of 15 and known by a handful of vocal harmony connoiseurs only, but it appears Nicolas' list won't be that bad after all. If it doesn't appear in RYM or Discogs, I would appreciate a web reference so I don't need to spend hours chasing it down. I didn't know games music WAS a thing until you and JimmyJazz started referencing it in the Critics' Lists area. I don't play games (arthritis in both hands) but when the kids were young, we usually played with the volume turned down and rocking our own playlist. Casuals!

Yeah, I understood something like that too. Too bad those roots 78's will in the end not get their vote, with it, I expected Flamingo Serenade to be a shoe-in for number 1

Anyway, back to the video game business: I was not expecting it, but Rate Your Music does mention the album:

http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/ ... _and_evil/

The album was not released in 2003, however, it only appeared in the circumstances I described to you earlier.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/arch ... -free.aspx

Anyway, I hope it will be enough proof?

Saying video game music IS a thing is probably going a bit far. It's still quite a niche market and many OSTs experience the kind of dubious release BG&E did. And I guess it's hard expanding the fanbase, I don't expect many people to be ready to listen to 2 or 3 hour long albums full of instrumental music (er, no offense to jazz aficionados, of course). But if I remember correctly, Nassim did mention that during the last albums poll, Jet Set Radio and Jet Set Radio Future made one list each, so maybe this forum is ready for it. And don't worry, Doc, regarding my video games I'm usually just as casual as you are ! But like everywhere there are also hidden gems.

[DocBrown]

With one week of submissions, and six lists received we have

- 1360 albums that have received at least a single vote
- edit one album in the AM top 100 with no votes oops!
- 40% of the top 100 in the poll are from outside the AM top 100, including
- two songs in the top 100 from outside the AM top 1000!

I appreciate these early voters, and I look forward to seeing your lists!

[BleuPanda]

I wonder what the two albums outside the top 1000 are. Considering discussions, I'm going to guess Zombie and something by Ennio Morricone.

[Brad]

Guys - Any thoughts on ranking the first Clash album, UK vs US version, combo of both, or don't care? (I guess the early Beatles albums would pose a similar problem).

[Nick]

Guys - Any thoughts on ranking the first Clash album, UK vs US version, combo of both, or don't care? (I guess the early Beatles albums would pose a similar problem).

I just choose my favorite version and rank it. I don't take into account any other versions for my rankings.

[DocBrown]

Guys - Any thoughts on ranking the first Clash album, UK vs US version, combo of both, or don't care? (I guess the early Beatles albums would pose a similar problem).

I just choose my favorite version and rank it. I don't take into account any other versions for my rankings.

I'm with Nick. The interweb is confusing us all. I remember when owning an "import" album was something special. Now everybody is looking for the Japanese vinyl rip with three bonus songs and two alternate takes... most of which is usually crap that contributes nothing to the album.

[Jirin]

Zombie has to be one of them.

For the other one, I would guess something international. Like Cluba da Esquina or Samba Esquema Novo.

[Live in Phoenix]

Oh crap, after some scanning, it looks like I can fill up a whole top 500 list. There goes my August...

[DocBrown]

Oh crap, after some scanning, it looks like I can fill up a whole top 500 list. There goes my August...

... and there goes my October...

[Henrik]

If you manage to build a spreadsheet of everyone's albums, it would be great if you, as an amendment to the main list, could post the top 100 albums not on AM. If you began collecting lists using the AM spreadsheet, I suppose it will be easy to sort out the rest afterwards.

[DocBrown]

If you manage to build a spreadsheet of everyone's albums, it would be great if you, as an amendment to the main list, could post the top 100 albums not on AM. If you began collecting lists using the AM spreadsheet, I suppose it will be easy to sort out the rest afterwards.

Already have it laid out.

[VanillaFire1000]

Just a note about the Beyond Good and Evil soundtrack. I haven't included it in my lists before because of its lack of official release. The JSR and JSRF soundtracks did have them, which is why they are on there. If Pierre wants to add it onto the list, then I will put it on mine as well.

[Pierre]

Just a note about the Beyond Good and Evil soundtrack. I haven't included it in my lists before because of its lack of official release. The JSR and JSRF soundtracks did have them, which is why they are on there. If Pierre wants to add it onto the list, then I will put it on mine as well.

As it stands, I'm going to include BG&E on my list. DocBrown has not provided a final answer to me, but since it's mentioned on RYM, I guess it's OK. That's cool, I didn't expect someone else to actually include it on his/her list!

[DocBrown]

Just a note about the Beyond Good and Evil soundtrack. I haven't included it in my lists before because of its lack of official release. The JSR and JSRF soundtracks did have them, which is why they are on there. If Pierre wants to add it onto the list, then I will put it on mine as well.

As it stands, I'm going to include BG&E on my list. DocBrown has not provided a final answer to me, but since it's mentioned on RYM, I guess it's OK. That's cool, I didn't expect someone else to actually include it on his/her list!

Sorry, thought my answer was final; if you can document its existence (which you have, thanks) I will accept it.