Forum Poll: The Best Albums and Songs of 1992

[nicolas]

Songs

1 . Tom Waits - I Don't Wanna Grow Up
2 . Cesaria Evora - Sodade
3 . The Jayhawks - Waiting for the Sun
4 . Tom Waits - Black Wings
5 . Tom Waits - Jesus Gonna Be Here
6 . kd Lang - Constant Craving
7 . The Jayhawks - Clouds
8 . Noir Désir - Tostaky (Le Continent)
9 . R.E.M. - Find The River
10 . Arthur H - Bachibouzouk Band
11 . R.E.M. - Nightswimming
12 . Sonic Youth - Sugar Kane
13 . Arthur H - Un aveugle au volant
14 . Iris DeMent - Our Town
15 . Bad Livers - Precious Time

16 . R.E.M. - Everybody Hurts
17 . Ice Cube - It Was A Good Day
18 . Radiohead - Creep
19 . The Jayhawks - Crowded in the Wings
20 . The Beastie Boys - In 3's
21 . US 3 - Cantaloop
22 . Cesaria Evora - Bia
23 . Ali Hassan Kuban - Habibi
24 . Paul Weller - Bull Rush
25 . Los Lobos - Kiko And The Lavender Moon

[nicolas]

Results

Songs


1 . Radiohead - Creep - 339 (15 votes)
2 . R.E.M. - Nightswimming - 248 (12)
3 . Wu-Tang Clan | Protect Ya Neck - 215 (6)
4 . R.E.M. - Everybody Hurts - 200 (8)
5 . R.E.M. - Drive - 181 (12)
6 . R.E.M. - Man on the Moon - 156 (8)
7 . Ice Cube - It Was A Good Day - 138 (7)
8 . Cesária Évora - Sodade - 132 (5)
9 . Tori Amos - Winter - 119 (4)
10 . Tom Waits - Jesus Gonna Be Here - 112 (4)
11 . The Pharcyde : Passin' Me By - 110 (4)
12 . Noir Désir - Tostaky - 109 (5)
13 . R.E.M. - Try Not to Breathe - 105 (5)
14 . The Cure - Friday, I'm In Love - 104 (9)
15 . Pavement - Here - 100 (8) (after tie-breaker)

2 non anglophone songs included (and 5 R.E.M. songs)

(next)

16 . Manic Street Preachers - Motorcycle Emptiness - 100 (2)
17 . Eric Clapton - Tears in Heaven 98 (3)
18 . Arrested Development – Tennessee 95 (5)
19 . R.E.M. - Find the River 90 (8)
20 . Rage Against The Machine - Killing In The Name 84

[Brad]

"Motorcycle Emptiness" won over "Here" because its maximum score was 50

wow! after an 8-2 loss in number of votes... we (Pave fans) wuz robbed!

[nicolas]

Well the general rule used in the past decade polls is goal (or point) average.
Or am I wrong ? Because it is the same case for albums.

Petri, Honorio, Nassim, Stephan, henrik, what did you do when there was a draw at #15 ? did you count the number of votes ? average points ? tie-break vote ?
That was not provided for by the rules, so I'm ready to accept discussion on this.

[nicolas]

Albums

1 . R.E.M. - Automatic for the People | 978 | 26
2 . Pavement - Slanted and Enchanted | 522 | 21
3 . Tom Waits - Bone Machine | 492 | 17
4 . Sonic Youth - Dirty | 270 | 16
5 . Tori Amos - Little Earthquakes | 216 | 14
6 . PJ Harvey - Dry | 190 | 16
7 . Rage Against The Machine - Rage Against The Machine | 176 | 10
8 . Spiritualized- Lazer-Guided Melodies | 157 | 7
9 . Aphex Twin | Selected Ambient Works 85-92 | 137 | 9
10 . Sugar- Copper Blue | 133 | 9
11 . Prince- The Symbol Album | 118 | 5
12 . Lemonheads - It's a Shame About Ray | 117 | 11
13 . Jayhawks - Hollywood Town Hall | 116 | 7
14 . Los Lobos - Kiko | 106 | 10 (after tie-breaker)

and as non anglophone
17 . Cesária Évora | Miss Perfumado 91 6

(cry, cry, cry)
15. Beastie Boys -- Check Your Head 106 15
16 . Cure - Wish 95 4
18 . MINISTRY-Psalm 69 89 3
19 . Pharcyde - Bizarre Ride II The Pharcyde 88 5
20 . Neil Young - Harvest Moon 80 7

[Stephan]

Yeah, I've always gone with highest vote (i.e. highest number of #1s, if that's the same, highest number of #2s, etc.) for the film polls.

[Brad]

No complaints from me Nicolas - just feeling the agony of defeat!
However you have it worked out is fine by me!

[Henrik]

Don't put me into this.

[sonofsamiam]

Can we just knock out Try Not to Breathe and include Here?

[Petri]

Well the general rule used in the past decade polls is goal (or point) average.
Or am I wrong ? Because it is the same case for albums.

Petri, Honorio, Nassim, Stephan, henrik, what did you do when there was a draw at #15 ? did you count the number of votes ? average points ? tie-break vote ?
That was not provided for by the rules, so I'm ready to accept discussion on this.

There were two draws in 00's poll last year. Both times there were a tiebreaker. I think Nassim also arranged a tiebreaker in the 70's poll. The new scoring system already benefits enough high votes (Here would have got more points than Motorcycle Emptiness if we haven't changed the scoring.) I would prop up tiebreak (although Mot Emp was my #1) but I'm fine with the point average rule too.

[Henrik]

I forgot about the tiebraker option. I agree we should use that.

[Zorg]

Albums

1 . R.E.M. - Automatic for the People | 978 | 26
2 . Pavement - Slanted and Enchanted | 522 | 21
3 . Tom Waits - Bone Machine | 492 | 17
4 . Sonic Youth - Dirty | 270 | 16
5 . Tori Amos - Little Earthquakes | 216 | 14
6 . PJ Harvey - Dry | 190 | 16
7 . Rage Against The Machine - Rage Against The Machine | 176 | 10
8 . Spiritualized- Lazer-Guided Melodies | 157 | 7
9 . Aphex Twin | Selected Ambient Works 85-92 | 137 | 9
10 . Sugar- Copper Blue | 133 | 9
11 . Prince- The Symbol Album | 118 | 5
12 . Lemonheads - It's a Shame About Ray | 117 | 11
13 . Jayhawks - Hollywood Town Hall | 116 | 7
14 . Los Lobos - Kiko | 106 | 10

and as non anglophone
17 . Cesária Évora | Miss Perfumado 91 6

(cry, cry, cry)
15 . Beastie Boys -- Check Your Head 106 15
16 . Cure - Wish 95 4
18 . MINISTRY-Psalm 69 89 3
19 . Pharcyde - Bizarre Ride II The Pharcyde 88 5
20 . Neil Young - Harvest Moon 80 7

Am i right in thinking that means that Dr. Dre's classic The Chronic wasn't even in the top 20???

[nicolas]

yes you're right Zorg
and I will organize a double tie-breaker soon

[Listyguy]

Am i right in thinking that means that Dr. Dre's classic The Chronic wasn't even in the top 20???

In my opinion, "The Chronic" is one of (if not the) worst album in AM's top 200.

[beefsupreme]

albums

[8] beastie boys - ill communication

Check Your Head I guess !

Truth, thanks for having my back!

2 . Pavement - Frontwards ( 33 )

Dang! I forgot about that one...

[Jackson]

I'm ok with the way the songs poll turned out, but the results are just bizarre. You've got one of the worst examples of single-album domination in the history of the forum mixed in with some genuinely cool outcomes--Protect Ya Neck and Passin' Me By qualifying on the backs of a few strong supporters, Tom Waits somehow getting a song through despite substantial vote-splitting, and two non-English songs making it.

I bet this vote could be split up into several constituencies that would have produced completely different results (for example, Protect Ya Neck's voters probably do not care much for the decidedly wimpier Creep and Nightswimming).


And I could care less for The Chronic as an album, but how did Nuthin' but a 'G' Thang not make top 20? I count 9 votes for it, including two 5's, a 6, two 7's, a 10, two 13's, and a 15. I know the scoring system is steep, but do we really want to eliminate such a consensus favorite?

[Henrik]

I've been thinking a bit about the scale and I think a very steep scale is good when we are many voters. On the other hand, in polls with few voters the outcome would be that we're leaving out big favorites from the final just because they didn't appear in anyone's top 3. The steepness would ideally depend on the number of voters. If a majority think that the scoring system for the '90s polls is too steep, then here's a suggestion how to adjust the scale in future polls:

Keep the current scale as a "maximum scoring scale".
Include a second criterion that depends on the number of voters. Something like this:

1st place: points = # voters * 1.3
2nd place: points = # voters * 1.1
3rd place: points = # voters * 0.9
4th place: points = # voters * 0.7
5th place: points = # voters * 0.5

If the number of voters is 30, the scores would then be

39
33
27
20
15
10
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1

I intentially made an example that didn't change the scale too much, as I think the current scale is quite good as it is.

Of course, one view of this is that it is unnecessarily complicated. It would require more work from the person who counts the scores. Let me hear what you think.

[Jackson]

I like Henrik's idea. I do favor the idea of a steep scale in principle, and it has helped several of my favorites make it through, but Nuthin' but a 'G' Thang showed that it's pretty much impossible to get through under this system unless you make someone's top 3. I don't know if that's ideal.

[nicolas]

I'm not sure there is an ideal way. It was a try in a new direction, and I kinda like it.
Maybe for the next decade poll we could mpake a sort of mix of both methods, like the Henrik method although it would be time consuming for the poll manager.

[Henrik]

I'm not sure there is an ideal way. It was a try in a new direction, and I kinda like it.
Maybe for the next decade poll we could mpake a sort of mix of both methods.
And I'm not quite sure that "Nuthin' but a G Thang" will be terribly missed

I'm also happy to continue the 90s poll as it is. It will be very interesting to analyze the results of the non-anglophone albums and albums with few votes in the decade poll.

[nicolas]

Yeah, and "Kiko" winning the tie-breaker despite fewer votes in the pool results proves that it was just a lesser known album. People listened to it and preferred it to the B Boys. So if everybody plays the game and manages to listen to ALL of the songs and/or albums those lesser known songs/albums, even the non anglophone, have a chance. But there will be 150 of each category to make it to 2nd round, so it will be harder. Maybe we should postpone the deadline a little bit (2 months or 45 days) to allow people to listen to a maximum music.