Rolling Stone: The 100 Greatest Songwriters of All Time

[The Rug Rat]

Now, about that one writer here I think is bad: it's going to be a controversial choice I suspect, but really it is #5 Smokey Robinson. I actively dislike his lyrics. He writes poetry for beginners, by which I mean high school stuff at best, but mostly grade school texts.

BOB DYLAN said "Smokey Robinson is America's Greatest Living Poet."

[Bruno]

I think some here are confusing the word "songwriter" and thinking it as lyricists.

[Rob]

And there is no one on this planet and no one on this site who could make a comprehensive list about songwriters encompassing all languages, unless you want to go by hearsay. Rolling Stone comes from an English language speaking country. To bad, but do many Spanish lists of the type include any songs written in Dutch, German or Korean? I doubt it. There's no way to start with such a thing.

Just as Romain said, the problem is in the title. Any list of albums, songs, or whatever, with only results in Spanish, it will never be called "The Greatest (x) of All Time." Usually these lists specify "in Spanish". The problem from my point of view is not the fact that the results are restricted to English because that's all they know, for me the problem is that the people who read these lists really believe that this is better than anything else, no matter where in the world is the reader. And then they decide to look no further.

Perhaps, but it is hard to judge what a reader of a list might think. All lists, no matter how thorough they are thought through (of which this list isn't a good example) are controversial. I think few people just swallow a list whole and than say everything is right and don't look further. Usually a list is just a starting point for newcomers or a tip list at best for veterans. Of course, in that view exclusion of other languages is not a good thing, but is not the end of it. Besides, if the reader is indeed from a non-English language country (like you, me and quite a lot of forum folks here) they probably know at least some music from their own language. They know it is out there and hopefully also know what it is worth. Every country has its evergreen songs that everyone knows, don't they?

Musically, Chuck Berry was very innovative, but his words never seemed to mean more than something to sing along to the tunes to. As a lyricist I think he is hard to defend with a fourth position. In fact, I wouldn't let him anywhere near the top 100

You're missing a lot if you don't think that Chuck's lyrics were anything more than something to sing along to.

http://www.reasontorock.com/artists/chuck_berry.html


As good as Berry’s music was, however, his lyrics proved just as ground-breaking. Sterling Morrison, member of the group Velvet Underground, said: “I liked Chuck Berry as a guitar player. But I liked him better as a lyricist. There was a lot more depth there, and the rhythm of his lyrics was fabulous.” (Fricke 1995) While the lyrics of other early rock songs continued pop traditions of endless variations on obvious romantic themes, or at best simply reflected current popular culture, Berry’s words transcended and commented on the youth culture he was addressing, usually in a comic way. “Memphis,” for example, starts as a traditional country song, sung by a man trying to connect with a girl he is missing. It is only in the last two lines of the song that he finally reveals that the girl he is trying to contact is his six year old daughter. Other songs dealt with the frustrations of being at the mercy of adults, as with “Too Much Monkey Business.” Berry often wrote about cars, and their role in youthful relationships, as in “Maybellene” and “No Particular Place to Go.”

Berry was one of the first, as well, to write about the music that he and others were creating. “Rock’n Roll Music” and “Roll Over, Beethoven” were two of his classics on this theme. He was also one of the first to observe the ability of the music to liberate those who played it from their humble beginnings, as in his triumphant “Johnny B. Goode.”

This combination of great music and words resulted in Chuck Berry easily becoming the rock songwriter who has most frequently had his songs covered by other rockers. Artists as divergent as Buddy Holly, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, the Grateful Dead and the Beach Boys all recorded Chuck Berry tunes, to name just a few.

Well, that's fair enough. I'll admit that Berry's lyrics where a little bit more colorful than most of rock 'n roll had to offer at the time, even though that says more about the importance of lyrics in that music, than about Berry. It's subjective of course, but personally I'd say that Berry's lyrics, despite capturing a place and time in a light way, hold very little power on themselves. I do agree about the rhythm in Berry's word flow, though.

There he was somewhat ahead of the time. I hadn't thought about it like that, but thinking about it I can't really mention anyone else who did it that well in the fifties.

BOB DYLAN said "Smokey Robinson is America's Greatest Living Poet."

I know and this has always baffled me. Compared to other poetry, in music or otherwise, I think Robinson comes up very short. He doesn't have a particular great vocabulary and a very obvious sense of rhyme. To each his own, but I don't think there is a spark of originality in the writing of Robinson. His talents are in melody, arrangement and singing.

I think some here are confusing the word "songwriter" and thinking it as lyricists.

Well, that's what much of this discussion is about of course. The list isn't as clear on the matter as you'd think. Songwriting in the broad sense means writing both the lyrics and the melody. The addition of say Bernie Taupin (who only writes lyrics) along with Elton John (who only writes music) does indeed point that way. However, Leonard Cohen has always been completely ignored in every major list by Rolling Stone (including Album top 500, Song top 500 and Artist top 100) and now suddenly he makes the top 20. Surely that's only based on his lyrics; if they likes his music he would have featured anywhere else.

Whatever the case, I don't think songwriting in a broad sense is an interesting basis for a list. I mean, bar very, very few exceptions, every major acclaimed artist since the mid-sixties has written their own songs both lyrically and musically. Rolling Stone could copy/ paste their artist top 100 almost completely, having to only throw out a few that really wrote nothing (Elvis Presley) or not their highest rated work (Aretha Franklin perhaps). Songwriting becomes too broad of a criteria, whereas lyrics look at a specific area of a song. I'd love to see a list of greatest lyricists in music. Is there any good one out.

[The Rug Rat]

[I think Robinson comes up very short. He doesn't have a particular great vocabulary and a very obvious sense of rhyme.

Are you sure you are familiar with his catalog beyond the 5 or 6 biggest hits?

Who else would rhyme camouflage with mirage?

[The Rug Rat]

Whatever the case, I don't think songwriting in a broad sense is an interesting basis for a list. I mean, bar very, very few exceptions, every major acclaimed artist since the mid-sixties has written their own songs both lyrically and musically.

Lots of huge acts do not write much (or any) of their own music, acclaimed or not. What did Barbara Streisand, the Temptations, Glen Campbell, the Four Tops, the Supremes, or Dionne Warwick ever write. If critics are taking into account whether the recording act wrote the song themselves or not, they are just dead wrong. That has nothing at all to do with the piece of music being reviewed. "Whole Lotta Love" does not sound any different after they have to pay Willie Dixon than it did before then.

Rolling Stone could copy/ paste their artist top 100 almost completely, having to only throw out a few that really wrote nothing (Elvis Presley) or not their highest rated work (Aretha Franklin perhaps). Songwriting becomes too broad of a criteria, whereas lyrics look at a specific area of a song. I'd love to see a list of greatest lyricists in music. Is there any good one out.

I don't agree with your take as to lyrics vs. overall songwriting, but here a good list of lyricists.

http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_lyricists.html

[PlasticRam]

[I think Robinson comes up very short. He doesn't have a particular great vocabulary and a very obvious sense of rhyme.

Are you sure you are familiar with his catalog beyond the 5 or 6 biggest hits?

To jump into the discussion, I think Tracks of My Tears is lyrically a terrific song. But I'd imagine that's one of his strongest songs, if not the strongest.

Also this reminds me of when I compare Kanye to Eminem, where Kanye doesn't have complex rhymes and everything, but his lyrics have more meaning. I think that could be the case with Smokey too.

[Pierre]

http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_lyricists.html

Digital Dream Door! Ladies and gents, The Rug Rat is stepping up his Bruce impersonation. I'm eagerly waiting the moment when he'll start talking Fats Domino or Bing Crosby, so things can start to really get funky

[PlasticRam]

http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_lyricists.html

Digital Dream Door! Ladies and gents, The Rug Rat is stepping up his Bruce impersonation. I'm eagerly waiting the moment when he'll start talking Fats Domino or Bing Crosby, so things can start to really get funky

[The Rug Rat]

If lyrics were the main component of songwriting you would have a lot more hits that were acapella, and there would not be so many instrumentals that have been big hits.

[Nick]

If lyrics were the main component of songwriting you would have a lot more hits that were acapella, and there would not be so many instrumentals that have been big hits.

An excellent counterargument to this would be that there have been almost no instrumental hits in the past 40 years, Bruce.

Though, yeah, generally speaking the public doesn't care all too much about lyrical content. The public wants there to be lyrics, hence the lack of chart success for instrumentals in the past 40 years. But what those lyrics are actually saying is beside the point, so long as the lyrical content is a) simple and b) about a universal topic, such as love, dancing, partying, heartbreak, etc.

[The Rug Rat]

If lyrics were the main component of songwriting you would have a lot more hits that were acapella, and there would not be so many instrumentals that have been big hits.

An excellent counterargument to this would be that there have been almost no instrumental hits in the past 40 years,

Did you miss these huge instrumental hits?

The Hustle - Van McCoy
Pick Up The Pieces - AWB
Express - BT Express
The Rockford Files - Mike Post
A Fifth of Beethoven - Walter Murphy
Theme From S.W.A.T. - Rhythm Heritage
Nadia's Theme - Barry DeVorzon
Star wars Theme - Meco
Gonna Fly Now - Bill Conti
Chariots of Fire - Vangelis
St. Elmo's Fire - David Foster
Rockit - Herbie Hancock
Axel F - Harold Faltermeyer
Miami Vice Theme - Jan Hammer
Hill Street Blues Theme - Mike Post
Songbird - Kenny G
Close to the Edit - Art of Noise

[Nick]

If lyrics were the main component of songwriting you would have a lot more hits that were acapella, and there would not be so many instrumentals that have been big hits.

An excellent counterargument to this would be that there have been almost no instrumental hits in the past 40 years,

Did you miss these huge instrumental hits?

The Hustle - Van McCoy
Pick Up The Pieces - AWB
Express - BT Express
The Rockford Files - Mike Post
A Fifth of Beethoven - Walter Murphy
Theme From S.W.A.T. - Rhythm Heritage
Nadia's Theme - Barry DeVorzon
Star wars Theme - Meco
Gonna Fly Now - Bill Conti
Chariots of Fire - Vangelis
St. Elmo's Fire - David Foster
Rockit - Herbie Hancock
Axel F - Harold Faltermeyer
Miami Vice Theme - Jan Hammer
Hill Street Blues Theme - Mike Post
Songbird - Kenny G
Close to the Edit - Art of Noise

These are just a fraction of the enormous number of hit singles in the past 40 years. If you have hundreds of hit songs and only a dozen or so are instrumentals, it's safe to say that "almost none" of those hit songs are instrumentals. But fine, let's amend that to the past 30 years. Between 1985 and the present day there have been almost no hit instrumentals in the US, Bruce.

[Henrik]

I got a report that this thread is becoming too Brucey. I agree so I'm locking this now.