Album of the Week

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:30 pm

So, as discussed in the topic 'There she goes: questions', an album is chosen every week, heard, and discussed. I'll post the rules for the selection of the albums in a minute, as soon as I am done forming them.

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:47 pm

Groups so far:

- Pop-Rock Music group: JimmyJazz, whuntva, ordinaryperson, Sweepstakes Ron, Bang-Jan, Nick, Jirin, GucciLittlePiggy

- Avant-Garde Music group: luney6, Pierre, Blanco, Bang-Jan

- Jazz Music group: luney6, JimmyJazz, Honorio, sonofsamiam

- Classical Music group: whuntva, Jeff, Romain, Honorio, sonofsamiam

- Hip Hop/ Soul: bootsy, notbrianeno, Jeff, GucciLittlePiggy, Moonbeam, TimmyWing

-World Music/ Folk: BleuPanda, notbrianeno, Blanco, Romain, Jirin

-Electronic: ordinaryperson, bootsy, Pierre, BleuPanda, Nick, Moonbeam

Genre Specifications, as assembled by JimmyJazz: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2908&p=43238#p43238

Previous albums: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2941

Here are the rules:
1. Each member of the forum who wishes to participate in the selection of the album must join two of the 7 groups specified above.
2. In order to join a group, please post the name of the group in this thread, by 11th September 2015. Choose the groups based on the genre which you think you are most familiar with, and should be able to recommend albums from.
3. Each week, an album will be chosen by the group, by discussion, or any other way they like, in separate threads created by the members.
4. For the first week, the pop-rock group will choose an album, and everyone can hear it and discuss it. One may also choose to offer ratings, if they want. Then, for the second week, it will be the second group, the Avant-Garde group's turn to choose an album, and so on.
5. One can change their group at the end of every complete cycle. One can also take part in the discussions without being a member of any group.

I'm new at this, and therefore I hope I was able to lay out the rules correctly, and the game makes sense, without diluting the original criteria (this is much harder than it looks

). Any and all recommendations are welcome. I hope a lot of people take part, because the more the merrier.

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:13 pm

Genre Specifications:

1. Pop-Rocks Music- Includes Rock & Roll, Folk Rock, Britpop, dream pop etc.
2. Avant-Garde Music- Includes Progressive Rock, Experimantal Rock, Art-rock, Jazz-Rock, noise rock etc.
3. Jazz - Includes Free Jazz, Avant Garde Jazz, Bop, Progressive Jazz, etc.
4. Classical Music- Includes Modern classical music, classical music from other countries, classical music, etc.
5. Hip Hop and Soul- Includes Gangster Rap, R&B, Motown, Funk, etc.
6. World Music & Folk- Includes Singer/Songwriter, folk rock, reggae, world music.
7. Electronic - Includes trip hop, ambient music, house, techno, etc.
Finally, the genres are mere frameworks and not guidelines, and hence they are not to strictly be adhered to, but only considered. Therefore, several other genres, like Hip-Hop and Folk are not included in the frame-work; it depends on the users where they want to put them, especially since many of the albums fall into multiple categories. Therefore the genres are more or less based on each person's own-interpretation.

audioclectic · Post by **audioclectic** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:24 pm

My listening range is fairly narrow, so it's unlikely that I would participate in this to a significant degree. That said, you should probably clarify how you would categorize world (regional) music. It might also be valuable to consider R&B outside the Pop-Rock framework, maybe Hip-Hop / Rap as well.

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:30 pm

Ok. In that case I'll add another group for Hip-hop and Soul, and one for world music, and maybe folk?

Pierre · Post by **Pierre** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:34 pm

I agree with audioclectic that the specs are imperfect. I understand that you want to keep it at four so we can have a monthly turnover, but perhaps I would shoot out avant-garde, as it's too vague and I'm unsure that many members on the forum as extensive knowledge on the subject (besides, the genres mentioned can be redistributed in pop-rock, jazz and even classical), and maybe create a separate category for hip-hop and electronic music instead (so there's no useless debate on trip-hop as there was in the ill-fated hip-hop recommandations topic). Also, World music should find its way in too, but I'm unsure how.

Maybe a more restrictive system should be considered for choosing the album of the week in each group as well. Free debating is great, but I'm afraid that in the end it will be a fight for each member to push his own album without ever reaching an agreement.

Edit: Sorry, you answered while I was writing this

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:45 pm

Pierre wrote:I agree with audioclectic that the specs are imperfect. I understand that you want to keep it at four so we can have a monthly turnover, but perhaps I would shoot out avant-garde, as it's too vague and I'm unsure that many members on the forum as extensive knowledge on the subject (besides, the genres mentioned can be redistributed in pop-rock, jazz and even classical), and maybe create a separate category for hip-hop and electronic music instead (so there's no useless debate on trip-hop as there was in the ill-fated hip-hop recommandations topic). Also, World music should find its way in too, but I'm unsure how.

Maybe a more restrictive system should be considered for choosing the album of the week in each group as well. Free debating is great, but I'm afraid that in the end it will be a fight for each member to push his own album without ever reaching an agreement.

Edit: Sorry, you answered while I was writing this

Maybe instead of free debating, we can work out a voting system. I'd like to work on that once the groups are decided, and then depending on the number of members in each group we can work out the system.

I originally wanted to keep a bare minimum of genres, so that each cycle could end faster, but that as you said, that could lead to a lot of debates. However, I now realize that a higher number of groups could also be helpful, due to the number of people in each group being lower, and as a result, it would be easier to choose albums.

Also, I feel like Avant-Garde Music is like a separate entity, as compared to the other genres, as many comparatively obscure artists from this genre will not get a chance otherwise (like-wise for all genres, and I hope that in the long run a lot of the artists get a chance, but anyways). The genre may also include more acclaimed artists like King Crimson and the Velvet Underground, so that may hold some appeal.

Edit: Although, if there aren't many members, we can merge it with the Pop-Rock group in the second cycle.

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:48 pm

Trip-Hop can be considered in the rep genre, or the electronic genre depending on the artist. DJ Shadow and Massive Attack, which are slightly more rap oriented can be in the Hip-Hop and Soul category, while others like Portishead, which are not that rap oriented can be with electronic music in the Pop-Rock category.

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:52 pm

If there are any additional doubts as to where a specific artist or sub-genre will fall, they can be posted here before the groups are chosen, and be sorted out.

audioclectic · Post by **audioclectic** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:08 pm

I think your 6 category revision is a good starting point. Good luck!

Pierre · Post by **Pierre** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:20 pm

I agree with audioclectic, although I still have doubts about the avant-garde category. One intermediary measure before merging it for the second cycle in case there are few members would be to allow forum members to participate in two categories per week instead of one. If it still doesn't work out, then on the third cycle I would support its merging.

BleuPanda · Post by **BleuPanda** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:23 pm

You could also consider doing something simpler, such as allowing each user to choose one album. After their album is the week's pick, then they can nominate a new one. The genres might not be as even, but it would reflect the overall board's idea of what needs to be discussed. Everyone also gets a chance at direct input.

Also, if you keep the genre breakdown, I think electronic deserves its own section. It's a genre the board still needs to explore, and in this format it would probably never get representation. Pop-rock covers way too much to be a single week.

Pierre · Post by **Pierre** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:42 pm

BleuPanda wrote: Also, if you keep the genre breakdown, I think electronic deserves its own section. It's a genre the board still needs to explore, and in this format it would probably never get representation.

I thought as much, but hesitated to mention it. However, now that BleuPanda did it, I have to support him. Sorry luney6

But it's true that the members of this forum need to explore electronic music more.

If the genre breakdown therefore reaches 7, then I would strongly support allowing the forum members to participate in more than one group per cycle, or else there will be groups with very few members.

audioclectic · Post by **audioclectic** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:00 pm

Good point re: electronic, but this also shows how there is a blurring of the lines in some of the categories. I think genres tend to get overweight and subgenres tend to become lost in the shadows. A further complication for me are cases where subgenres are poorly defined, progressive rock for example. Some of the most strident of rock critics / historians insist that rap can not be separated from the rock music tree. It becomes annoying after a while trying to find your way through the minefield.

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:36 pm

I've electronic as a new genre, now to include trip hop, ambient music and house among many other genres.

Also, I agree that it is a good idea to allow people to vote in two genre categories at once, so that's settled

.

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:41 pm

BleuPanda wrote:You could also consider doing something simpler, such as allowing each user to choose one album. After their album is the week's pick, then they can nominate a new one. The genres might not be as even, but it would reflect the overall board's idea of what needs to be discussed. Everyone also gets a chance at direct input.

Doing something simpler would have its advantages, but in that case a lot of time will be spent with more established artists and albums that everyone has heard, and many less obscure records, not heard by a lot of the members would lose out. And genres like Classical, world music and Avant-Garde would also be underrepresented. However, the method you described for picking albums could be implemented in the different groups instead, as that would make things more convenient.

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:11 am

Anymore genre-related queries?

ordinaryperson · Post by **ordinaryperson** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 1:49 am

Great idea luney6! I guess I would choose electronic as the group I would join. I had an idea similar to this but the album would be selected from a random number generator.

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:46 am

ordinaryperson wrote:Great idea luney6! I guess I would choose electronic as the group I would join. I had an idea similar to this but the album would be selected from a random number generator.

Ok

Also, I forgot to put this in the rules (i will now), but you are now allowed to choose 2 groups. So if you want to, you can choose another group.

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:50 am

I'd like to choose the Avant-Garde group and the Jazz group.

bootsy · Post by **bootsy** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:11 am

Well since it looks like some people are picking I'll go for the Hip-Hop and Soul group.

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:13 am

bootsy wrote:Well since it looks like some people are picking I'll go for the Hip-Hop and Soul group.

Yes, and if you want , you can pick another group as well.

bootsy · Post by **bootsy** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:17 am

luney6 wrote:
bootsy wrote:Well since it looks like some people are picking I'll go for the Hip-Hop and Soul group.
Yes, and if you want , you can pick another group as well.

OK I'll go with Electronic please.

JimmyJazz · Post by **JimmyJazz** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:44 am

I would like to do the pop-rock group and the jazz group. Unless only one person is allowed to be in a group?

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:49 am

JimmyJazz wrote:I would like to do the pop-rock group and the jazz group. Unless only one person is allowed to be in a group?

No, multiple people are allowed in a group.

JimmyJazz · Post by **JimmyJazz** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:51 am

Was also kind of hoping that some highly knowledgeable users in certain categories would see this thread, and consider participating in the groups. I'm thinking of folks like Honorio, Pierre, Blanco, Sonofsamiam, Nick, Nassim, Setherex, Listyguy, Dan, Moonbeam, etc. All members who I have found the writing and tastes of to be highly edifying in my own listening habits.

JimmyJazz · Post by **JimmyJazz** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:52 am

luney6 wrote:
JimmyJazz wrote:I would like to do the pop-rock group and the jazz group. Unless only one person is allowed to be in a group?
No, multiple people are allowed in a group.

Ok, then out me down for pop-rock and jazz!

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:54 am

JimmyJazz wrote:Was also kind of hoping that some highly knowledgeable users in certain categories would see this thread, and consider participating in the groups. I'm thinking of folks like Honorio, Pierre, Blanco, Sonofsamiam, Nick, Nassim, Setherex, Listyguy, Dan, Moonbeam, etc. All members who I have found the writing and tastes of to be highly edifying in my own listening habits.

I hope so too. Pierre and BleuPanda have already seen this group, so hopefully they'll participate?

As the others discover the group hopefully they'll also participate.

whuntva · Post by **whuntva** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:07 am

Ummm...Maybe I can do this.

I have a busy life now with school and a job tied directly therein, but I could probably do this.

I feel like since my tastes are very diverse, I could fit mostly into any of these.

Pop-Rock is one I could totally do. I'll have to think of my second one. Maybe Classical, because I just did the poll. The thing is, I'm not that knowledgeable with "modern" classical.

Still, peg me for those groups (for now)

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:14 am

whuntva wrote:Ummm...Maybe I can do this.

I have a busy life now with school and a job tied directly therein, but I could probably do this.

I feel like since my tastes are very diverse, I could fit mostly into any of these.

Pop-Rock is one I could totally do. I'll have to think of my second one. Maybe Classical, because I just did the poll. The thing is, I'm not that knowledgeable with "modern" classical.

Still, peg me for those groups (for now)

Ok, sure

. But don't worry about not knowing too much about the modern classical genre. The sub-genres I've given are simply caricatures, and a small component of a genre as a whole. Each genre is likely to contain sub-genres we don't know, and one of the objectives of this topic is to help discover new music. However, that said, if you feel you're more comfortable in another group, feel free to change.

ordinaryperson · Post by **ordinaryperson** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:15 am

I'll pick pop rock as my second group.

Pierre · Post by **Pierre** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:18 am

luney6, when do you plan to start? For I'm thinking about choosing electronic and avant-garde as my groups, but around the 16-18 of this month I might have a busy week and I'm afraid it would match the avant-garde week

Otherwise, I agree with Jimmy, I hope the members who have demonstrated their vast musical culture (all the people he named and some) will participate. Sonofsamiam and Mindrocker (although I haven't seen him around lately) who have the most experimental tastes could really bring some fresh air. I wish netjade never left, he was such a funny and interesting fellow. Reading him was a delight, and I think he would also have brought an interesting approach (that was the out of context mourning moment of the week

)

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:38 am

The groups will be finalized by 11th September. Then, the pop-rock group shall have till 14th, or maybe a little longer to choose their album. The pop-rock album of the week shall be from 14th-21st September. That week, the avant-garde group can choose the album, and thus the same pattern can be followed for the later groups. Should I add your name Pierre?

Pierre · Post by **Pierre** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:00 am

luney6 wrote:Should I add your name Pierre?

OK, go ahead. I think I will manage anyway

BleuPanda · Post by **BleuPanda** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 2:07 pm

Sign me up for World Music/Folk and Electronic

Also, just to clarify, what exactly are the limits of world music? Is it limited to only traditional style music, or can it include genres typically found in certain regions of the world; does Buena Vista Social Club get to be included here? What about J-Pop? What about worldbeat artists such as M.I.A.?

notbrianeno · Post by **notbrianeno** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:10 pm

I'll take Hip-hop/soul and World Music/Folk please!

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:53 pm

notbrianeno wrote:I'll take Hip-hop/soul and World Music/Folk please!

Done.

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:57 pm

BleuPanda wrote:Sign me up for World Music/Folk and Electronic

Also, just to clarify, what exactly are the limits of world music? Is it limited to only traditional style music, or can it include genres typically found in certain regions of the world; does Buena Vista Social Club get to be included here? What about J-Pop? What about worldbeat artists such as M.I.A.?

I thought about this, and I think Buena Vista Social Club and J-pop would normally not be included in world music, but in the normal pop-rock group they probably won't get a chance, so they can be included in the world music genre, as can other artists in foreign languages that would otherwise fall in the pop-rock (or the folk) genre. However, I think M.I.A. would otherwise also stand a fair chance in the hip-hop/ soul genre, so she should be left there.

JimmyJazz · Post by **JimmyJazz** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:02 pm

Also, regarding genres, I guess I'm trying to get a sense for what subgenres fall into what categories? Like regarding pop-rock, we factor in indie rock, Britpop, folk rock, hard rock, but not Prog rock or art rock, which fall into Avante-Garde instead?

Also, I think it would be good idea to establish an artist and all of their works for only one of the seven categories, so that potential overlaps don't become a thing.

Pierre · Post by **Pierre** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:27 pm

JimmyJazz wrote:Also, I think it would be good idea to establish an artist and all of their works for only one of the seven categories, so that potential overlaps don't become a thing.

This might be unwise in my opinion. Radiohead's "The Bends" is absolutely pop-rock, "OK Computer" could be classified as avant-garde from a certain viewpoint, and "Kid A" is certainly electronic (or avant-garde again). New Order's output is almost entirely electronic, but their very first singles and album ("Movement") are post-punk (does post-punk belong to pop-rock or avant-garde? Some of the most extreme works, like Half Japanese's "1/2 Gentlemen/Not Beasts" could be classified as avant-garde). I think it's better to leave the frontiers loose.

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:38 pm

Pierre wrote:
JimmyJazz wrote:Also, I think it would be good idea to establish an artist and all of their works for only one of the seven categories, so that potential overlaps don't become a thing.
This might be unwise in my opinion. Radiohead's "The Bends" is absolutely pop-rock, "OK Computer" could be classified as avant-garde from a certain viewpoint, and "Kid A" is certainly electronic (or avant-garde again). New Order's output is almost entirely electronic, but their very first singles and album ("Movement") are post-punk (does post-punk belong to pop-rock or avant-garde? Some of the most extreme works, like Half Japanese's "1/2 Gentlemen/Not Beasts" could be classified as avant-garde). I think it's better to leave the frontiers loose.

I agree with Pierre, so that all the work of one artist does not fall into a single group. So far I've been following the sub-genres given on AllMusic for different albums, in order to classify them into the groups. For eg: OK Computer is listed as being alternative pop/rock, alternative/indie rock, britpop and indie electronic. So, whichever groups those sub-genres fall into are the groups which can choose it (Pop rock and electronic in this case).

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:43 pm

Each album can be chosen only once, so whichever group the album ends up getting chosen from first is the one it is featured from. Also, I'd say post-punk is avant-garde, while folk rock is world music/folk.

JimmyJazz · Post by **JimmyJazz** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:45 pm

Very well then. I was just trying to make sure that popular artists on this forum don't get too much excessive representation. We don't need Radiohead to get an album two weeks in a row, for example. Same with Bob Dylan and rock and folk. Or Prince with rock and R&B. Or Bowie and the VU with rock and Avante-Garde.

JimmyJazz · Post by **JimmyJazz** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:53 pm

Possibly my confusion with this is trying to determine what subgenres belong in which of the seven main genre categories. If we could have a clear, defined guide for all of the groups as to what can and can't be included in their album picks, it would be immensely helpful.

Should I start a new separate thread for is discussion? I can type out the seven categories and fill them with the subgenres based on suggestions.

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:55 pm

JimmyJazz wrote:Very well then. I was just trying to make sure that popular artists on this forum don't get too much excessive representation. We don't need Radiohead to get an album two weeks in a row, for example. Same with Bob Dylan and rock and folk. Or Prince with rock and R&B. Or Bowie and the VU with rock and Avante-Garde.

That's understandable, but I don't think that'll happen, due to the pop-rock group, that otherwise might have been only one group being divided into 5 groups here. Chances are, that if a user chooses a certain group, they probably won't be thinking of choosing only the front-running artists from that group. At least I certainly am not going to vote for an artist like the Velvet Underground, which is rather well known, any time soon. I think a lot of the others who've chosen the group have the same thing in mind. So rest assured, if something like that happens too much, maybe we can have a rule that'll prevent the artists like dominating like you said.

luney6 · Post by **luney6** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:56 pm

Ok. I'll do that tomorrow.

Blanco · Post by **Blanco** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:35 pm

Pierre wrote:Some of the most extreme works, like Half Japanese's "1/2 Gentlemen/Not Beasts" could be classified as avant-garde.

Great album!

Pierre · Post by **Pierre** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:12 pm

Blanco wrote:
Pierre wrote:Some of the most extreme works, like Half Japanese's "1/2 Gentlemen/Not Beasts" could be classified as avant-garde.
Great album!

Yup, a tad long, but also fascinating at its best

Otherwise, Blanco, will you participate?

Blanco · Post by **Blanco** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:32 pm

Pierre wrote:Otherwise, Blanco, will you participate?

Yes!
Luney6, count me for "World Music / Folk" and "Avant-Garde", please.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:03 pm

I will volunteer for Classical and Hip Hop / Soul.

When we get started, I wonder if it would be more expedient to select albums by random lot instead of having voting rounds? That way, we could go week-to-week without delay. We could also rotate between genres each cycle for certain categories (e.g., if a Rock album is drew the first cycle for Pop/Rock, the next cycle would go to one of the submitted Pop albums; if a Soul album is drew first cycle for Hip Hop / Soul, the next album would have to be Soul and so on).