Should Joy Division and New Order's "Substance" albums really be considered compilations?

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Pierre
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Should Joy Division and New Order's "Substance" albums really be considered compilations?

Post by Pierre »

I just had the curiosity of checking today if these albums should really be considered comps, and to that end I tried to track down the first non-single releases for all the tracks on these (I was well helped by Discogs functionalities). That's the result I found:

Substance (Joy Division) tracklist

1 | Warsaw - from An Ideal for Living (EP)
2 | Leaders of Men - from An Ideal for Living (EP)
3 | Digital - from A Factory Sample (EP)
4 | Autosuggestion - from Earcom 2: Contradiction (EP)
5 | Transmission - not released on LP
6 | She's Lost Control - from Unknown Pleasures
7 | Incubation - not released on LP
8 | Dead Souls - not released on LP
9 | Atmosphere - not released on LP
10 | Love Will Tear Us Apart - not released on LP
[CD and cassette]
11 | No Love Lost - from An Ideal for Living (EP)
12 | Failures - from An Ideal for Living (EP)
13 | Glass - from A Factory Sample (EP)
14 | From Safety to Where...? - from Earcom 2: Contradiction (EP)
15 | Novelty - not released on LP
16 | Komakino - not released on LP
17 | These Days - not released on LP




Substance (New Order) tracklist

1 | Ceremony - not released on LP
2 | Everything's Gone Green - released on 1981-1982 (EP)
3 | Temptation - released on 1981-1982 (EP) in a different mix
4 | Blue Monday - released on Power, Corruption & Lies (CD version only)
5 | Confusion - released on Gabriel Yared's soundtrack to Désordre, in a different mix
6 | Thieves Like Us - not released on LP
7 | The Perfect Kiss - released on Low-Life in a different mix
8 | Sub-culture - released on Low-Life
9 | Shellshock - released on the soundtrack to Pretty in Pink in a different mix
10 | State of the Nation - released on Brotherhood (CD version only)
11 | Bizarre Love Triangle - released on Brotherhood in a different mix
12 | True Faith - not released on LP
[CD]
13 | In a Lonely Place - not released on LP
14 | Procession - released on 1981-1982 (EP)
15 | Cries and Whispers - not released on LP
16 | Hurt - released on 1981-1982 (EP) in a different mix
17 | The Beach - released on Power, Corruption & Lies (CD version only)
18 | Confused Instrumental - not released on LP
19 | Lonesome Tonight - not released on LP
20 | Murder - not released on LP
21 | Thieves Like Us (Instrumental) - not released on LP
22 | Kiss of Death - not released on LP
23 | Shame of the Nation - not released on LP
24 | 1963 - not released on LP


As you can see, I believe that for both records, the ratio of previous LPs/non-LP material is clearly in favour of non-LP tracks. So I thought that maybe by AM's criteria, the Substance records shouldn't be considered comps anymore? Anyone agrees?
Huangal70
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Re: Should Joy Division and New Order's "Substance" albums really be considered compilations?

Post by Huangal70 »

I'd agree with Joy Division (I always considered Substance and Still to be albums) but the New Order one has a lot of album tracks, and if we're counting different mixes as making the songs different then a case could be made for something like the Immaculate Collection by Madonna being an album, as that is a similar case if i remember correctly.
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Pierre
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Re: Should Joy Division and New Order's "Substance" albums really be considered compilations?

Post by Pierre »

Jap123 wrote:if we're counting different mixes as making the songs different then a case could be made for something like the Immaculate Collection by Madonna being an album, as that is a similar case if i remember correctly.
I actually believe it precisely makes it open for debate too, yeah.
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Re: Should Joy Division and New Order's "Substance" albums really be considered compilations?

Post by Henrik »

The general rule I have used is that the majority of songs have to be released a) within the last few years and b) after the artist’s last album. All the songs before ”Closer” and ”Brotherhood” make these albums ineligible for AM.
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Madzong
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Re: Should Joy Division and New Order's "Substance" albums really be considered compilations?

Post by Madzong »

Pierre wrote:
Substance (Joy Division) tracklist

6 | She's Lost Control - from Unknown Pleasures
Hi Pierre, I'm pretty sure the version on Substance is not the same as the 'album' version. In my opinion the Substance version is better and more robotic sounding. Substance is a great album btw :)
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Pierre
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Re: Should Joy Division and New Order's "Substance" albums really be considered compilations?

Post by Pierre »

madzong wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Substance (Joy Division) tracklist

6 | She's Lost Control - from Unknown Pleasures
Hi Pierre, I'm pretty sure the version on Substance is not the same as the 'album' version. In my opinion the Substance version is better and more robotic sounding. Substance is a great album btw :)
Yes, it appears you're right! This means that actually none of the songs from this album were released on LP before, so it's definitely not a comp in my book :D Thanks for pointing this out.
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Madzong
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Re: Should Joy Division and New Order's "Substance" albums really be considered compilations?

Post by Madzong »

Pierre wrote:
madzong wrote:
Pierre wrote:
Substance (Joy Division) tracklist

6 | She's Lost Control - from Unknown Pleasures
Hi Pierre, I'm pretty sure the version on Substance is not the same as the 'album' version. In my opinion the Substance version is better and more robotic sounding. Substance is a great album btw :)
Yes, it appears you're right! This means that actually none of the songs from this album were released on LP before, so it's definitely not a comp in my book :D Thanks for pointing this out.
No problem :) I'm a big New Order/Joy Division fan too!
"On a mountain range, I'm Dr. Strange"
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