Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post Reply
Hymie
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3330
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Hymie »

I'm thinking that the Grammy awards are a form of acclaim. Nominations and awards. What do others here think?

Perhaps Henrik can figure out a way to include nominations and winners to get some acclaim towards the rankings for the site. It would certainly bring a different perspective and add lots of songs and albums that don't appear here now. Especially with all of the sub categories.

Naturally big awards like Record Of The Year and Album Of The Year should carry more weight than sub categories like Beat Female Americana album. But they all should get something.

I was looking over the Grammys for 1970, which were mainly things that were released in 1969. Some surprising things received nominations, like a version of "Yesterday" by Ruth Brown and "You've Got To Pay The Price" by Gloria Taylor were both nominated for best female soul record.

Maybe all the sub categories are too much, but I would feel very comfortable if the nominees and winners for Record of the Year and Album Of The Year were all given some credit towards acclaim for the site.

Here are the items from 1970, which were all first released in 1969 or earlier.

http://www.awardsandshows.com/features/ ... 0-219.html

Album Of The Year
The Nominees Were:

Blood, Sweat And Tears - Blood, Sweat And Tears
Crosby, Stills And Nash - Crosby, Stills And Nash
Johnny Cash - Johnny Cash At San Quentin
The 5th Dimension - The Age Of Aquarius
Beatles - Abbey Road

Winner: Blood, Sweat And Tears - Blood, Sweat And Tears

Record Of The Year
The Nominees Were:

The 5th Dimension - Aquarius/Let The Sunshine In
Blood Sweat & Tears - Spinning Wheel
Henry Mancini - A Time For Us
Johnny Cash - A Boy Named Sue
Peggy Lee - Is That All There Is

Winner: The 5th Dimension - Aquarius/Let The Sunshine In
Hymie
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3330
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Hymie »

Here are the 1971 items.

Album Of The Year
The nominees were:

Simon And Garfunkel - Bridge Over Troubled Water
Chicago - Chicago
Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young - Deja Vu
Elton John - Elton John Lyrics
James Taylor - Sweet Baby James
The Carpenters - Close To You

Winner: Simon And Garfunkel - Bridge Over Troubled Water Lyrics


Record Of The Year
The nominees were

Simon And Garfunkel - Bridge Over Troubled Water
James Taylor - Fire And Rain
Ray Stevens - Everything Is Beautiful
Beatles - Let It Be
The Carpenters - Close To You

Winner: Simon And Garfunkel - Bridge Over Troubled Water Lyrics
Hymie
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3330
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Hymie »

And 1972:

Album Of The Year
The nominees were:

Carole King - Tapestry
George Harrison - All Things Must Pass
Isaac Hayes - Shaft
The Carpenters - The Carpenters

Winner: Carole King - Tapestry Lyrics

Record Of The Year
The nominees were:

Carole King - It's Too Late
George Harrison - My Sweet Lord
Isaac Hayes - Theme From Shaft
James Taylor - You've Got A Friend
Three Dog Night - Joy To The World

Winner: Carole King - It's Too Late Lyrics
Jirin
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3350
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:12 am

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Jirin »

Sometimes. Grammies are very political, and they'll never pick something most people haven't heard of.
Hymie
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3330
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Hymie »

Jirin wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:49 am Sometimes. Grammies are very political, and they'll never pick something most people haven't heard of.
On the contrary, lots of Grammy nominations go to songs or albums that most people never heard of. Not in the main 2 categories, but in lots of the other categories. I know a ton of records, but I never knew that Ruth Brown did a version of "Yesterday" until the other day when I looked at the Grammy nominations in 1971.
User avatar
FrankLotion
Movin' On Up
Posts: 840
Joined: Sat May 05, 2018 9:15 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by FrankLotion »

I was thinking about this recently, the reasoning for who gets Record/Album/Song of the Year are tenuous at best but winning the award is an achievement in itself even if it is a popularity contest.

For example, these were the last 10 winners for Album of the Year: When We All Fall Asleep, Where Do We Go?, Golden Hour, 24K Magic,25, 1989, Morning Phase, Random Access Memories, Babel, 21, and The Suburbs. There's both classics and real duds in that list from my perspective but all of them made a genuine impact on a sizeable amount of people and that in itself is a form of acclaim.

Now, I would hardly be the first person to say that some winners like Babel are steamy garbage but I know that there are tons of people who still look back on it fondly so I think that's at least worth a mention on AM even if the weight given is pretty minimal.

Plus, a lot of musicians that justifiably rag on the Grammy's still treat a win as a big deal and a validation of their work, there are a lot of big popular albums every year and if yours was considered the best out of all them that's worth celebrating.

That's just my two cents, rant over!
User avatar
Henrik
Site Admin
Posts: 6439
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:09 am
Location: Älvsjö, Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Henrik »

Album and record of the year are already included at AM.
Everyone you meet fights a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.
panam
Full of Fire
Posts: 2691
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:21 am

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by panam »

Henrik wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:45 am Album and record of the year are already included at AM.
I'm surprised in the forum it isn't known.
Hymie
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3330
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Hymie »

Jirin wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:49 am Sometimes. Grammies are very political,
As are lists from critics and magazines too sometimes. Especially when a record label advertises in a magazine they will usually get better listings and reviews.
Hymie
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3330
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Hymie »

Henrik wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:45 am Album and record of the year are already included at AM.
Did not know that. Why not give some credit to the other nominees for those 2 awards?
panam
Full of Fire
Posts: 2691
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:21 am

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by panam »

Hymie wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:10 pm
Jirin wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:49 am Sometimes. Grammies are very political,
As are lists from critics and magazines too sometimes. Especially when a record label advertises in a magazine they will usually get better listings and reviews.
Exactly!
Jirin
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3350
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:12 am

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Jirin »

Hymie wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:10 pm
Jirin wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:49 am Sometimes. Grammies are very political,
As are lists from critics and magazines too sometimes. Especially when a record label advertises in a magazine they will usually get better listings and reviews.
Not to the same extent. A magazine might inflate a popular album for political reasons, but that won't come at the expense of more obscure albums some critic thought was fantastic.
Hymie
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3330
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Hymie »

Jirin wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:25 pm
Hymie wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:10 pm
Jirin wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:49 am Sometimes. Grammies are very political,
As are lists from critics and magazines too sometimes. Especially when a record label advertises in a magazine they will usually get better listings and reviews.
Not to the same extent. A magazine might inflate a popular album for political reasons, but that won't come at the expense of more obscure albums some critic thought was fantastic.
If it's just one "some critic" it won't make a dent on this site. You would need it to impress at least 3 or 4 critics which at that point the album is not really so obscure anymore. I would say that "Yesterday" by Ruth Brown, which had a Grammy nomination in 1971, is at least as obscure as most anything on this site. The single has zero ratings on RYM and the album it's from only has 31 ratings. It's also on a label I've never even heard of.

https://rateyourmusic.com/release/singl ... e-and-see/
Jirin
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3350
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:12 am

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Jirin »

Hymie wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:06 pm
Jirin wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:25 pm
Hymie wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:10 pm

As are lists from critics and magazines too sometimes. Especially when a record label advertises in a magazine they will usually get better listings and reviews.
Not to the same extent. A magazine might inflate a popular album for political reasons, but that won't come at the expense of more obscure albums some critic thought was fantastic.
If it's just one "some critic" it won't make a dent on this site. You would need it to impress at least 3 or 4 critics which at that point the album is not really so obscure anymore. I would say that "Yesterday" by Ruth Brown, which had a Grammy nomination in 1971, is at least as obscure as most anything on this site. The single has zero ratings on RYM and the album it's from only has 31 ratings. It's also on a label I've never even heard of.

https://rateyourmusic.com/release/singl ... e-and-see/
I'm not seeing the point of your argument here. Maybe the grammies were better in 1971 than they are now, but that was 50 years ago. Not that long after that, Jethro Tull won Best Hard Rock/Heavy Metal Performance.

Yeah, it takes more than one critic. But A, I wasn't just talking about the acclaimedmusic.net list. Just a couple publications giving it a high rating won't get you on AM but it will get your name out and get on people's radar, which is way more important than getting a cookie for being at the top. And B, there are plenty of artists who were not heralded in their own time who since then have climbed up the list.

Publications may inflate a popular album for political reasons, but individual critics will just say what they really think about the album.
Hymie
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3330
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Hymie »

Jirin wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:44 pmIndividual critics will just say what they really think about the album.
Don't be naïve. Critics have friends and enemies and often do favors for someone they like or someone who takes care of them, like a promo man or someone from a particular label. There's always a double standard.
Hymie
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3330
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Hymie »

Jirin wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:44 pm Maybe the grammies were better in 1971 than they are now, but that was 50 years ago. Not that long after that, Jethro Tull won Best Hard Rock/Heavy Metal Performance.
Not sure how old you are, but I was in high school when Tull was popular and everybody considered them to be hard rock then. The term "Prog" came along later and is used in retrospect about the acts from the early and mid-70s.

RYM lists these genres for Jethro Tull:

Genres
Progressive Rock, Folk Rock, Blues Rock, Hard Rock, Rock, Christmas Music

The Grammys have always been bad with genres but acclaim is acclaim. It doesn't matter if they list the genre wrong.

The first year of the Grammys featured this:

Best Rhythm & Blues Performance
The Nominees were:

The Champs - Tequila
Harry Belafonte - Belafonte Sings the Blues
Nat King Cole - Looking Back
Perez Prado - Patricia
Earl Grant - The End

Winner: The Champs - Tequila


None of the nominees were actually rhythm and blues. But they were acclaimed nevertheless.
poorpete
Strange Fruit
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:15 pm

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by poorpete »

It's tough because, even though the Grammys rarely award something truly bad (and sometimes they do really well in their nominations and winners), they do emphasize two things most critics try to downplay (successfully or not): popularity and lifetime achievement.

One thing I'd agree. If an acclaimed song/album otherwise also gets a Grammy, it's like a "cherry on the top." Like when "This is America" get the Pazz and Jop and then wins the Grammy. The "Hey Ya"s and the Sgt Peppers...
User avatar
Madzong
Shake Some Action
Posts: 1476
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:36 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Madzong »

No Grammy Awards do not equal acclaim. Like every award sometimes they get it right and sometimes...

https://www.msn.com/en-au/entertainment ... od#image=3


"On a mountain range, I'm Dr. Strange"
Hymie
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3330
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Hymie »

Madzong wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:49 pm No Grammy Awards do not equal acclaim. Like every award sometimes they get it right and sometimes...
And every critic does the same. Sometimes they get it right and sometimes they get it wrong. Most of the critics said that Led Zeppelin was shit in 1969. Same with lots of acts that later became very acclaimed.
Last edited by Hymie on Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jirin
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3350
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:12 am

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Jirin »

I think you're just being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. Yeah, not every critic is 100% pure of influence, but who cares? You find a critic you agree with and follow that critic, damned if you find the next 100 critics totally appalling. Critics listen to everything, and just because they have a few palms to grease to keep their job doesn't totally negate them. It's not a purity test, it's an industry.

Critics act as a filter, listening to 500 albums so I can find the 50 I like, and you can find the 50 you like. The Grammies are the music industry celebrating itself and generating TV ratings. But I think what you want isn't everyone finding the music that's right for them, I think what you want is the music you like officially enshrined above all other music.
Hymie
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3330
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Hymie »

Jirin wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:34 am I think what you want is the music you like officially enshrined above all other music.
Not at all. The Grammys don't reflect my taste even a bit. I just think that there are lots of other types of acclaim besides what critics think. Henrik is already including the Grammy winners for album and record of the year. I'm just suggesting that he extend that out to also give some credit to the other nominees in those 2 categories, maybe half as much credit as the winner got. Getting nominated is a big deal. Usually there are 5 nominees from among the thousands of releases in that year. We'll never know the vote totals so I think half as much credit for the losing nominees would be about right.
Harold
Into the Groove
Posts: 2331
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Harold »

Hymie wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:56 am Henrik is already including the Grammy winners for album and record of the year. I'm just suggesting that he extend that out to also give some credit to the other nominees in those 2 categories, maybe half as much credit as the winner got. Getting nominated is a big deal. Usually there are 5 nominees from among the thousands of releases in that year. We'll never know the vote totals so I think half as much credit for the losing nominees would be about right.
The other nominees in those two categories are already included...
Hymie
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3330
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Hymie »

Harold wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:49 am
Hymie wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:56 am Henrik is already including the Grammy winners for album and record of the year. I'm just suggesting that he extend that out to also give some credit to the other nominees in those 2 categories, maybe half as much credit as the winner got. Getting nominated is a big deal. Usually there are 5 nominees from among the thousands of releases in that year. We'll never know the vote totals so I think half as much credit for the losing nominees would be about right.
The other nominees in those two categories are already included...
Okay.
poorpete
Strange Fruit
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:15 pm

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by poorpete »

When I was doing my personal list of acclaim not knowing this list existed, I gave 1pt to best record nominees, 5pts for winner. Wonder what the weight is here?
Last edited by poorpete on Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
VanillaFire1000
Let's Get It On
Posts: 170
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:27 am
Location: Taichung, Taiwan

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by VanillaFire1000 »

The Grammys, just like any "Academy" dominated nomination process, will have problems because these nominations are not coming from the critics themselves, but the artists. And well...it is alot easier to influence other artists than a critic.
Hymie
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3330
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Hymie »

VanillaFire1000 wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:14 am And well...it is alot easier to influence other artists than a critic.
No it's not. They are all people. Critics don't have any special integrity above artists.
Jirin
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3350
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:12 am

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Jirin »

The Grammies are a form of industry acclaim. Industry acclaim differs from critical acclaim in that critics acclaim the art and the industry acclaims the product.
Jirin
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3350
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:12 am

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Jirin »

Hymie wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:57 pm
VanillaFire1000 wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:14 am And well...it is alot easier to influence other artists than a critic.
No it's not. They are all people. Critics don't have any special integrity above artists.
They tend to have broader, less prescriptive tastes, unless it’s an artist who academically studied music as opposed to either just forming a band with their buddies or being auditioned by the label.
Hymie
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3330
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Hymie »

Jirin wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:04 pm
Hymie wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:57 pm
VanillaFire1000 wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:14 am And well...it is alot easier to influence other artists than a critic.
No it's not. They are all people. Critics don't have any special integrity above artists.
They tend to have broader, less prescriptive tastes, unless it’s an artist who academically studied music as opposed to either just forming a band with their buddies or being auditioned by the label.
Very few critics have ever "studied music." The vast majority of them were Journalism majors. Most artists have very wide taste. They are not locked into what their sound is. Check out "Live at Daryl's House" or "Road Trip with Sammy Hagar." Both shows feature all kinds of things that are unlike what Daryl and Sammy do. The last one I watched had Sammy in New Orleans interviewing Trombone Shorty. The last Daryl I watched had Billy Gibbons as the guest and they did a bunch of ZZ Top songs along with some blues things.
User avatar
Schüttelbirne
Into the Groove
Posts: 2379
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:50 am

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Schüttelbirne »

The Recording Academy also includes jazz and classical musicians who have studied music (it's very hard to be in classical music without having studied it), so I think their taste may actually be more varied and less biased than critics' opinions.

The Grammys have a far more varied list (below the line) than most critics list I've seen, so I do probably prefer them to the critics' lists that all look the same because the critics just reproduce each other's results (another problem is that many critics just review what is sent to them for that specific purpose, so they won't venture out and find more interesting things).
User avatar
whuntva
Keep On Movin'
Posts: 1839
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:46 pm

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by whuntva »

Grammys don't weigh high on our forum. And with good reason. If you're curious where the acclaimed Records and Albums land, it is all over the place.

ROTY was already archived in this post.

ALBUM OF THE YEAR ON AM (all rankings all-time):

1959: Henry Mancini--Music From Peter Gun (#2243)
1960: Frank Sinatra--Come Dance With Me (#2784)
1961: Bob Newhart--The Button-Down Mind of Bob Newhart (bubbling)
1962: Judy Garland--Judy at Carnegie Hall (#1146)
1963: Vaughn Meader--The First Family (unlisted)
1964: Barbra Streisand--The Barbra Streisand Album (#2269)
1965: Stan Getz & Joao Gilberto--Getz/Gilberto (#388)
1966: Frank Sinatra--The September of my Years (#1434)
1967: Frank Sinatra--A Man And His Music (unlisted)
1968: The Beatles--Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band (#6)
1969: Glenn Campbell--By the Time I Get to Phoenix (unlisted; though the title song is listed)
1970: Blood, Sweat & Tears--Blood, Sweat & Tears (#1308)
1971: Simon and Garfunkel--Bridge Over Troubled Water (#138)
1972: Carole King--Tapestry (#69)
1973: George Harrison and Friends--The Concert for Bangla Desh (#1537)
1974: Stevie Wonder--Innervisions (#48)
1975: Stevie Wonder--Fulfillingness' First Finale (#986)
1976: Paul Simon--Still Crazy After All These Years (#1309)
1977: Stevie Wonder--Songs In The Key Of Life (#45)
1978: Fleetwood Mac--Rumours (#59)
1979: Various Artists--Saturday Night Fever Soundtrack (#161)
1980: Billy Joel--52nd Street (#2740)
1981: Christopher Cross--Christopher Cross (unlisted)
1982: John Lennon & Yoko Ono--Double Fantasy (#1218)
1983: Toto--Toto IV (#1838)
1984: Michael Jackson--Thriller (#23)
1985: Lionel Richie--Can't Slow Down (#1989)
1986: Phil Collins--No Jacket Required (unlisted)
1987: Paul Simon--Graceland (#71)
1988: U2--The Joshua Tree (#40)
1989: George Michael--Faith (#591)
1990: Bonnie Raitt--Nick of Time (#1154)
1991: Quincy Jones and Various Artists--Back on the Block (unlisted)
1992: Natalie Cole--Unforgettable...With Love (unlisted)
1993: Eric Clapton--Unplugged (#1318)
1994: Whitney Houston--The Bodyguard (bubbling)
1995: Tony Bennett--MTV Unplugged (unlisted)
1996: Alanis Morissette--Jagged Little Pill (#348)
1997: Celine Dion--Falling Into You (unlisted)
1998: Bob Dylan--Time Out Of Mind (#267)
1999: Lauryn Hill--The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill (#113)
2000: Santana--Supernatural (bubbling)
2001: Steely Dan--Two Against Nature (bubbling)
2002: Various Artists--O Brother, Where Art Thou? Soundtrack (#2070)
2003: Norah Jones--Come Away With Me (#1289)
2004: Outkast--Speakerboxxx/The Love Below (#298)
2005: Ray Charles & Various Artists--Genius Loves Company (unlisted)
2006: U2--How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb (#2297)
2007: Dixie Chicks--Taking The Long Way (bubbling)
2008: Herbie Hancock--River: The Joni Letters (unlisted)
2009: Robert Plant & Alison Krauss--Raising Sand (#1143)
2010: Taylor Swift--Fearless (bubbling)
2011: Arcade Fire--The Suburbs (#120)
2012: Adele--21 (#645)
2013: Mumford and Sons--Babel (bubbling)
2014: Daft Punk--Random Access Memories (#325)
2015: Beck--Morning Phase (#2325)
2016: Taylor Swift--1989 (#657)
2017: Adele--25 (bubbling)
2018: Bruno Mars--24k Magic (unlisted)
2019: Kacey Musgraves--Golden Hour (#453)
2020: Billie Eilish--When We All Fall Asleep, Where Do We Go? (#506)

I will give some credit for genre diversity and unpredictability. Though many of these picks are quite mediocre. Only TWICE did it go to what AM deemed the "album of the year" (although a fair amount were ranked #2 for their year, which I thought was funny). Many of these picks were even absent from AM altogether. I'm a bit flabbergasted a Herbie Hancock cover album beat Back to Black and Graduation, two albums in the Top 1000. A recent death or tragedy seems to play a role, which I don't exactly blame them for. But still, these picks seem quite suspect and show the problems with closed-circuit voting overall. It breeds a culture of elitism and exclusion, and does not factor in the critics nearly as much, so nobody is sure which will stand the test of time.
" Ah, yes! Our meager restitution"
Hymie
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3330
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Hymie »

Given a choice of what the public likes best or what the critics like best I'd choose the public every time. And I'd do the same with movies too. It's the critics who are the elitists IMO, not the public.
Gillingham
Into the Groove
Posts: 2022
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:33 pm
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Gillingham »

Hymie wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:21 am Given a choice of what the public likes best or what the critics like best I'd choose the public every time. And I'd do the same with movies too. It's the critics who are the elitists IMO, not the public.
This website is very clear about what it's about: critical acclaim, not public popularity:
ACCLAIMED MUSIC
3,000 Albums and 10,000 Songs!

The Most Recommended Recordings Based on Thousands of Critics' Lists
There are lots of other sources if you look for public popularity.
nquoid
Wannabe
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:42 am

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by nquoid »

Hymie wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:21 am Given a choice of what the public likes best or what the critics like best I'd choose the public every time. And I'd do the same with movies too. It's the critics who are the elitists IMO, not the public.
If the option is between someone who listens to/watches about 10 things casually a year and someone who consumes as much media as they can and offers critiques, I know who I'm more inclined to listen to.

Most of the critics who I follow are people who do it because they love the mediums they critique and aren't elitist. More important to me that I find someone who's taste aligns with me or that I like the writing style of.
Hymie
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3330
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Hymie »

Gillingham wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:04 am
Hymie wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:21 am Given a choice of what the public likes best or what the critics like best I'd choose the public every time. And I'd do the same with movies too. It's the critics who are the elitists IMO, not the public.
This website is very clear about what it's about: critical acclaim, not public popularity:
ACCLAIMED MUSIC
3,000 Albums and 10,000 Songs!

The Most Recommended Recordings Based on Thousands of Critics' Lists
There are lots of other sources if you look for public popularity.
Yes, and I use many other sources. I am interested in what critics think, but I am far more interested in widespread popularity than I am in critical acclaim.
Hymie
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3330
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Hymie »

nquoid wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:42 pm
Hymie wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:21 am Given a choice of what the public likes best or what the critics like best I'd choose the public every time. And I'd do the same with movies too. It's the critics who are the elitists IMO, not the public.
If the option is between someone who listens to/watches about 10 things casually a year and someone who consumes as much media as they can and offers critiques, I know who I'm more inclined to listen to.

Most of the critics who I follow are people who do it because they love the mediums they critique and aren't elitist. More important to me that I find someone who's taste aligns with me or that I like the writing style of.
I'm coming at this from a very different place than most others.

Since I only liked current music from the time that I first got interested (1968) through the time (1972) that I started getting much more interested in older music I never had much use for reading contemporary reviews from critics. I was between 10 and 15 years old when I was excited about current releases. After that I was only interested in older music or acts who sounded like older music, like George Thorogood or the Stray Cats.

Right now I read this site below every day. The guy is reviewing every rock and roll single ever released starting in 1947 with Roy Brown's version of "Good Rockin' Tonight." I've posted this link here before but none of the other members here were interested.

https://www.spontaneouslunacy.net/thear ... cury-8179/
Hymie
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3330
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by Hymie »

Also, even in those years where I liked most of the current hits (1968-1972), I was never much interested in albums. I was a 45 man. You didn't need critics for 45's. You'd hear a song on the radio and then go buy it. I bought maybe 3 or 4 albums a year, just acts that were huge favorites like CCR. The only albums I really cared about in 1970 were Cosmo's Factory and Deja Vu. Both albums had several hit singles on them, which was the main attraction.

EDIT - I also got Mad Dogs and Engishmen in November, which I had wanted. But I only would play 4 or 5 of the songs on a double album.
StyleItTakes
Are You Experienced?
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:59 am

Re: Do Grammys = Acclaim?

Post by StyleItTakes »

"I don't know what this means. I don't think it means anything." - Eddie Vedder upon receiving a Grammy Award in 1996.

The Grammys are compromised in every way. Most 'artists' who win Grammys are in the industry specifically to win them. The large majority of important musicians are not represented by the Grammys.

Justin Vernon of American indie folk band Bon Iver stated, upon winning a Grammy Award in 2012, "It's really hard to accept this award. There's so much talent out here, and there's a lot of talent that's not here tonight. It's also hard to accept because, you know, when I started to make songs, I did it for the inherent reward of making songs, so I'm a little bit uncomfortable up here."

Every so often, however, an album of substantial critical praise wins the Grammy for Album of the Year. The albums in recent memory that I was pleased that won the award are:

2011 - Arcade Fire - The Suburbs
2014 - Daft Punk - Random Access Memories
2015 - Beck - Morning Phase
Why don't you sit right over there
We'll do a movie portrait
I'll turn the camera on
And I won't even be there
A portrait that moves
You look great I think
Post Reply

Return to “Music, Music, Music...”