Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

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Henrik
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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

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Was my least liked film the last one to appear?
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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

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Henrik wrote:Was my least liked film the last one to appear?
Actually we have Jirin's least liked film still in the game (and I think it's easy to guess what movie it is).
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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

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8. Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964)

[imgsize 250x360]http://kalafudra.files.wordpress.com/20 ... gelove.jpg[/imgsize]

Director: Stanley Kubrick
Points: 1039,43
Year rank: #1 of 1964
Voters: 16
Fans: Stone37 #2, Michel #3, Henrik #5, Chilton #5, Gillingham #6, Bruce #7, Harold #8, SuperFurry #19
Haters: Miguel #59/60
Comment(s):



7. Persona (1966)

[imgsize 250x360]http://images.moviepostershop.com/perso ... 433558.jpg[/imgsize]

Director: Ingmar Bergman
Points: 1053,65
Year rank: #2 of 1966
Voters: 13
Fans: Michel #1, Jirin #2, antonius #4, Greg #7, JimmyJazz #11, Gillingham #18, Petri #18
Haters: None
Comment(s):


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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

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Jirin wrote:Everybody expects roughly the same thing from music other than the hardcore academics
Gillingham wrote:I guess your more used to 'experimental' music than to experimental film.
You're probably right, but this is what I'm having a hard time top accept, as I think I've seen quite a lot of experimental films by now (and I also don't think of my music taste as difficult). My feeling is instead that a lot of people suddenly put on the hardcore academic hat when they start talking film.

Again, this is not a complain, just a curious observation.
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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

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Petri wrote:
Gillingham wrote:I definitely dont think people who have seen very few films (say, less than 30) shouldnt be able to vote, but maybe it would be suitable if the pointsystem would be a little different. I dont remember the formula exactly but a number 12 in a list of 20 films should receive more points than a film that wasnt seen.
The formula is sum(i from 1 to n)(2100/((rank of a voter i)+20)). And if voter hasn't seen some movie it got the same score than the average rank score would be (which is totally different than average score of a voter). It works very well in my opinion (I don't have time to write about it more carefully).
I agree that its more probable that if you have seen only 20 movies you have like most of them (because you've watched only the ones you think you will like) than if you have seen all the movies in the top 100. Neverheless we have voters like Greg (sorry for taking you as an exemple Greg :greetings-waveyellow: ) who has seen practically everything but some of the biggest hits of Hollywood. I'm pretty sure the reason isn't that he hasn't have chance to watch those movies (he's even American) but he knows he probably won't like them and decides not to watch them. So I think the score of average rank is fine regardless how many movies you have seen. And if we give more points the movies below median compared the ones he/she hasn't seen in cases voter have seen a small number of movies (less than 30) it would increase the effect of his/her votes. And I would sooner decrease the effect of people who have seen less than others than increase it.
But yeah it's good to talk about score system too (although Henrik's formula (or should I say equation) is almost perfect there is possibility that even better equation can be found. 8-) ;)
There are probably two things that could be done to improve the formula:
1. Change the score distribution so that the distance between the least liked films becomes bigger (the smallest score difference somewhere towards the middle instead of at the bottom)
2. Move the unseen score down from the median to the 60th-70th percentile, or something like that.
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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

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We are approaching the top...





6. 8½ (1963)

[imgsize 250x360]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... ZlMue1OWug[/imgsize]

Director: Federico Fellini
Points: 1064,74
Year rank: #1 of 1963
Voters: 12
Fans: Gillingham #2, Greg #2, antonius #2, JimmyJazz #7, Michel #11, Jirin #15, Harold #15
Haters: Henrik #50/54
Comment(s): Magnum opus of of a director at his creative height. (Gillingham)



5. Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo [The Good, the Bad and the Ugly] (1966)

[imgsize 250x360]http://www.imedebe.com/wp/wp-content/up ... e-ugly.jpg[/imgsize]

Director: Sergio Leone
Points: 1080,30
Year rank: #1 of 1966
Voters: 13
Fans: SuperFurry #1, Stephan #2, Chilton #2, Gillingham #3, Henrik #4, Jirin #5, JimmyJazz #17, Miguel #18
Haters:
Comment(s):


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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

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OK here's #4.

4. The Apartment (1960)

[imgsize 250x360]http://d3gtl9l2a4fn1j.cloudfront.net/t/ ... zmjFc6.jpg[/imgsize]

Director: Billy Wilder
Points: 1088,95
Year rank: #2 of 1960
Voters: 15
Fans: Henry #2, Stephan #6, Miguel #7, bonnielaurel #7, SuperFurry #8, Henrik #8, Harold #10, Michel #13, Stone37 #14, antonius #14, JimmyJazz #14, Petri #17
Haters: Jirin #54/54
Comment(s):





The top 3 is what I expected. Still the dominance of them is quite impressive. The difference of points between #4 and #3 is bigger than difference between #61 and #100 (!!) or between #4 and #11.
So we have still in the game #1 of 1960 (which was #12 in our latest all time poll), #1 of 1968 (#3 in our atp) and #2 of 1968 (#6 in our atp). So in a way it's easy to see which movie has the biggest fans. But in the final of decade polls the haters counts too (they can have quite big impact) and even those who didn't vote the movie matter (and when we are in the top its more probably that the movie that have been seen less suffers because almost every one have (and would have) put them to the top half in their list. Only one of these three movies were ranked by every single voter (it was only movie in the list that everyone had seen). So anything is possible. :o
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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

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I really love the top 10 movies so far, but I have to agree (at least partly) with Jirin. The Apartment is quite conservative when it comes to expected roles of men and women. More importantly, Wilder can do better than this.
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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

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Henrik wrote:
Petri wrote:
Gillingham wrote:I definitely dont think people who have seen very few films (say, less than 30) shouldnt be able to vote, but maybe it would be suitable if the pointsystem would be a little different. I dont remember the formula exactly but a number 12 in a list of 20 films should receive more points than a film that wasnt seen.
The formula is sum(i from 1 to n)(2100/((rank of a voter i)+20)). And if voter hasn't seen some movie it got the same score than the average rank score would be (which is totally different than average score of a voter). It works very well in my opinion (I don't have time to write about it more carefully).
I agree that its more probable that if you have seen only 20 movies you have like most of them (because you've watched only the ones you think you will like) than if you have seen all the movies in the top 100. Neverheless we have voters like Greg (sorry for taking you as an exemple Greg :greetings-waveyellow: ) who has seen practically everything but some of the biggest hits of Hollywood. I'm pretty sure the reason isn't that he hasn't have chance to watch those movies (he's even American) but he knows he probably won't like them and decides not to watch them. So I think the score of average rank is fine regardless how many movies you have seen. And if we give more points the movies below median compared the ones he/she hasn't seen in cases voter have seen a small number of movies (less than 30) it would increase the effect of his/her votes. And I would sooner decrease the effect of people who have seen less than others than increase it.
But yeah it's good to talk about score system too (although Henrik's formula (or should I say equation) is almost perfect there is possibility that even better equation can be found. 8-) ;)
There are probably two things that could be done to improve the formula:
1. Change the score distribution so that the distance between the least liked films becomes bigger (the smallest score difference somewhere towards the middle instead of at the bottom)
2. Move the unseen score down from the median to the 60th-70th percentile, or something like that.
Thanks for the elaboration guys, I appreciate it. Looks like the formula is better than I remembered.
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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

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Gillingham wrote:I really love the top 10 movies so far, but I have to agree (at least partly) with Jirin. The Apartment is quite conservative when it comes to expected roles of men and women. More importantly, Wilder can do better than this.
I enjoyed The Apartment a lot when I saw it, but it was a long time ago and my concern about expected roles of men and women has definitely grown over the last years, so I really need to re-watch it. It was a big surprise to me that it came 4th.
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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

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3. Psycho (1960)

[imgsize 250x360]http://www.classichorrorcampaign.com/wp ... poster.jpg[/imgsize]

Director: Alfred Hitchcock
Points: 1200,53
Year rank: #1 of 1960
Voters: 17
Fans: Bonnielaurel #1, Henrik #2, Bruce #2, Harold #3, Stone37 #3, Chilton #3, Miguel #5, Petri #5, SuperFurry #10, Gillingham #11, antonius #12
Haters: Henry #17/18, Jirin #51/54
Comment(s):


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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

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Henrik wrote:
Gillingham wrote:I really love the top 10 movies so far, but I have to agree (at least partly) with Jirin. The Apartment is quite conservative when it comes to expected roles of men and women. More importantly, Wilder can do better than this.
I enjoyed The Apartment a lot when I saw it, but it was a long time ago and my concern about expected roles of men and women has definitely grown over the last years, so I really need to re-watch it. It was a big surprise to me that it came 4th.
I'm afraid it is true for many pre 70s Hollywood movies. Scratch that, Hollywood movies in general.

I need to rewatch The Apartment as well, its been a while. It being the only film I didnt particularly like in the top 10 is possibly a good motivation to get to it.
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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

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Henrik wrote:
Gillingham wrote:I really love the top 10 movies so far, but I have to agree (at least partly) with Jirin. The Apartment is quite conservative when it comes to expected roles of men and women. More importantly, Wilder can do better than this.
I enjoyed The Apartment a lot when I saw it, but it was a long time ago and my concern about expected roles of men and women has definitely grown over the last years, so I really need to re-watch it. It was a big surprise to me that it came 4th.
The 4th placement was big surprise to me as well (and I also loved the movie when I watched it a long time ago like almost every one else here :D ). It has 12 fans which is more than any other movie but one.
I'm also a bit surprised that Psycho have two haters (well I was familiar with Jirins dislike (from all time poll). It was one of the main reasons why Psycho ended up #3 (and not higher).
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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

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It's time to release the #1..

Thanks to you all who participated, commented or just wathced the show. 1960s was indeed a great decade for films. The variety of the films in top 100 was impressive. We had very different movies to each other. (Of course there's no movies from South America (Soy Cuba can be considered Cuban movie so it's from Latin America), Africa or even Oceania and not a single movie directed by a woman in our list. But I still must say this is one of the best and most varied top 100 I've seen.


AND HERE ARE THE TOP TWO MOVIES.

:happy-wavemulticolor: :obscene-drinkingcheers:





2. C'era una volta il West [Once Upon a Time in the West] (1968)

[imgsize 250x360]http://hitriders.be/wp-content/uploads/ ... upon-3.jpg[/imgsize]

Director: Sergio Leone
Points: 1228,41
Year rank: #2 of 1968
Voters: 13
Fans: Greg #1, Henrik #1, Stone37 #4, Gillingham #5, Harold #7, JimmyJazz #8, Stephan #8, SuperFurry #9, Michel #10, Petri #10, Jirin #13
Haters: None
Comment(s): The definitive western revision. Leone, or anybody else, couldn't take the genre any further than he did here. (Gillingham)



1. 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)

[imgsize 250x360]https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/imag ... p_XNEVR7Ol[/imgsize]

Director: Stanley Kubrick
Points: 1275,36
Year rank: #1 of 1968
Voters: 16
Fans: Gillingham #1, Miguel #1, Petri #1, Chilton #1, JimmyJazz #3, Harold #4, Michel #6, Henrik #7, Henry #9, Greg #10, antonius #10, SuperFurry #11, Jirin #17
Haters: Stephan #39/42
Comment(s): The revolutionary science fiction that no other director even came close to in terms of quality and perfection. (Gillingham)


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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

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Thanks for a really good show, Petri! I've had a great time!

I didn't know these three films would be in their own league. I'm surprised that the top two Leone and Kubrick films are not closer to each other.
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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

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Love the 60's films, loved your roll-out, Petri. Wish I was more knowledgeable in this area. Thanks.
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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

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Yeah, I mean, it's okay for Billy Wilder to show women as helpless imbeciles, but when Michael Bay does it it's a crime? ;) "I'd spell it out for you but I don't know how to spell". Then she gets involved with a married man and tries to kill herself when he does not reciprocate her affections, showing a complete emotional dependency on what man she happens to be sleeping with at the time. I did enjoy The Apartment the first time I watched it, actually, then when I came back to it later the whole "I'm going to be a HUMAN BEING" thing struck me as obnoxiously holier than thou.

@Henrik

I would classify the kind of movie you do not get more as 'contemplative' than experimental. Yeah, Un Chien Andalou is experimental, but I would certainly not classify Andrei Rublev that way. And I think you're off the mark that people rate films like that highly because they rate them highly on academic criteria rather than personally enjoying them. These films generate strong emotions directly from the images and themes rather than through the events of the story. They focus on finely sculpting the presentation of the story rather than sculpting the narrative itself, communicating subtleties of how the characters take in the events around them rather than just showing you the facts of those events. They are 'introverted' films, that invite you in to discover the meaning, as opposed to the 'extraverted' films which project the meaning out at the audience. Sometimes that extra cognitive effort it takes to process the film makes the impact more powerful.
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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

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Very well explained, Jirin. When you wrote "half the critics focus more on form and the contemplative aspects of cinema" in the other post, I interpreted that as an academic view rather than someone's personal enjoyment, just because I don't usually enjoy those kind of films myself. I'm glad to be wrong though.
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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

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Awesome results! Great presentation, Petri!
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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

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Thanks for your excellent work, Petri!
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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

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And my two cents on the voting process: I think we should keep high votes much more powerful than low votes. If I ask a person what they think of movies I'm much more interested in hearing about what they love than what they hate or what they think is okay, and I think our lists should continue to reflect that.

It's not a terrible idea to make a non-vote more in the 30th-40th percentile than the median, but I would also avoid over-penalizing films for being less viewed. Personally I'd enjoy seeing some kind of runoff-election like system where non-votes are just non-votes instead of being treated as votes equivalent to something. Something similar to Henrik's algorithm for the site.
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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

Post by Gillingham »

That was great Petri, thanks a lot!

These film polls are just as enjoyable as our music polls.
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Re: Films of the 1960s: THE RESULTS

Post by Stephan »

Thanks Petri, excellent results. As the only 'hater' of 2001 I'll definitely have to rewatch that some time soon.
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