Do you agree that these are the most acclaimed works of their respective mediums?

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letmeintomyzone
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Do you agree that these are the most acclaimed works of their respective mediums?

Post by letmeintomyzone »

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Re: Do you agree that these are the most acclaimed works of their respective mediums?

Post by StevieFan13 »

Hard to judge.
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Re: Do you agree that these are the most acclaimed works of their respective mediums?

Post by bootsy »

Probably not.
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Re: Do you agree that these are the most acclaimed works of their respective mediums?

Post by letmeintomyzone »

bootsy wrote:Probably not.
Please share your opinion
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Re: Do you agree that these are the most acclaimed works of their respective mediums?

Post by bootsy »

letmeintomyzone wrote:
bootsy wrote:Probably not.
Please share your opinion
There are a lot of options for all the mediums. It's pretty hard to say 1 single TV show, book, movie, video game, and album is head and shoulders above everything else.
For TV you could argue: The Wire, Breaking Bad, Game Of Thrones, Seinfeld
Film: The Godfather and The Godfather Part II, Shawshank Redemption, Casablanca
Books: The Odyssey, To Kill A Mockingbird, War And Peace, Moby DIck
Music: Any number of The Beatles albums, Highway 61 Revisited, OK Computer
I'm not well versed on video games but I would think Tetris, Half-Life, Super Mario Bros, Pac-man would be in the mix.

You got options.
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Re: Do you agree that these are the most acclaimed works of their respective mediums?

Post by Rocky Raccoon »

I would say they are "among" the most acclaimed works, but narrowing down on one specific work of art for each medium is tricky because there is plenty of disagreement.
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Re: Do you agree that these are the most acclaimed works of their respective mediums?

Post by babydoll »

bootsy wrote:Film: The Godfather and The Godfather Part II, Shawshank Redemption, Casablanca
You included both The Shawshank Redemption and Casablanca over Vertigo, 2001: A Space Odyssey and Tokyo Story? Gotta say, I'm shaking my head over here.
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Re: Do you agree that these are the most acclaimed works of their respective mediums?

Post by StevieFan13 »

babydoll wrote:
bootsy wrote:Film: The Godfather and The Godfather Part II, Shawshank Redemption, Casablanca
You included both The Shawshank Redemption and Casablanca over Vertigo, 2001: A Space Odyssey and Tokyo Story? Gotta say, I'm shaking my head over here.
Well, I'd say Casablanca is fair. That's my all-time favorite movie (which is not an automatic indicator of it being the best movie ever, but nevertheless).
Ultimately, I think it's futile to think there will ever be a "best of the best" in any medium. Some things just are impossible to organize or define, no matter how much we try.
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Re: Do you agree that these are the most acclaimed works of their respective mediums?

Post by bootsy »

babydoll wrote:
bootsy wrote:Film: The Godfather and The Godfather Part II, Shawshank Redemption, Casablanca
You included both The Shawshank Redemption and Casablanca over Vertigo, 2001: A Space Odyssey and Tokyo Story? Gotta say, I'm shaking my head over here.
Well I included those movies because those films are at or near the top of most acclaimed lists like IMDb, AFI, etc. With all due respect to 2001, never seen Tokyo Story or Vertigo, those movies aren't at or near the top of most acclaimed lists. The topic is most acclaimed, not what we think are better films than the acclaimed that the OP listed.
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Re: Do you agree that these are the most acclaimed works of their respective mediums?

Post by bootsy »

StevieFan13 wrote:
babydoll wrote:
bootsy wrote:Film: The Godfather and The Godfather Part II, Shawshank Redemption, Casablanca
You included both The Shawshank Redemption and Casablanca over Vertigo, 2001: A Space Odyssey and Tokyo Story? Gotta say, I'm shaking my head over here.
Well, I'd say Casablanca is fair. That's my all-time favorite movie (which is not an automatic indicator of it being the best movie ever, but nevertheless).
Ultimately, I think it's futile to think there will ever be a "best of the best" in any medium. Some things just are impossible to organize or define, no matter how much we try.
I agree Stevie, like I said there really isn't a definitive acclaimed TV show, movie, album, book or videogame. Ther are many that you can claim as the very best but there is no consensus one. That's why I mentioned the movies that I did because I see those movies at or near the top of a lot of lists.
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Re: Do you agree that these are the most acclaimed works of their respective mediums?

Post by Gillingham »

bootsy wrote:
babydoll wrote:
bootsy wrote:Film: The Godfather and The Godfather Part II, Shawshank Redemption, Casablanca
You included both The Shawshank Redemption and Casablanca over Vertigo, 2001: A Space Odyssey and Tokyo Story? Gotta say, I'm shaking my head over here.
Well I included those movies because those films are at or near the top of most acclaimed lists like IMDb, AFI, etc. With all due respect to 2001, never seen Tokyo Story or Vertigo, those movies aren't at or near the top of most acclaimed lists. The topic is most acclaimed, not what we think are better films than the acclaimed that the OP listed.
Have to agree with babydoll here. I definitely wouldn't put IMDb's list in the same group as sites like acclaimedmusic, theyshootpictures and the like. Same goes for AFI, since that's mostly just American acclaim and American movies.
I don't really agree with Casablanca, but I can imagine somebody mentioning it. But Shawshank? It's at 446 on the theyshootpictures list, while Vertigo, 2001 and Tokyo Story are second and third and fifth, respectively. Casablanca comes in at 35. This way, we could compare Casablanca to 'Who's Next' and Shawshank to 'The Fat of the Land'. ;)
Anyway, the films babydoll mentioned are generally way more acclaimed than those two, if you look at (international) critics lists.
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Re: Do you agree that these are the most acclaimed works of their respective mediums?

Post by bootsy »

Gillingham wrote:
bootsy wrote:
babydoll wrote: You included both The Shawshank Redemption and Casablanca over Vertigo, 2001: A Space Odyssey and Tokyo Story? Gotta say, I'm shaking my head over here.
Well I included those movies because those films are at or near the top of most acclaimed lists like IMDb, AFI, etc. With all due respect to 2001, never seen Tokyo Story or Vertigo, those movies aren't at or near the top of most acclaimed lists. The topic is most acclaimed, not what we think are better films than the acclaimed that the OP listed.
Have to agree with babydoll here. I definitely wouldn't put IMDb's list in the same group as sites like acclaimedmusic, theyshootpictures and the like. Same goes for AFI, since that's mostly just American acclaim and American movies.
I don't really agree with Casablanca, but I can imagine somebody mentioning it. But Shawshank? It's at 446 on the theyshootpictures list, while Vertigo, 2001 and Tokyo Story are second and third and fifth, respectively. Casablanca comes in at 35. This way, we could compare Casablanca to 'Who's Next' and Shawshank to 'The Fat of the Land'. ;)
Anyway, the films babydoll mentioned are generally way more acclaimed than those two, if you look at (international) critics lists.
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I think I've about had it up to here with this 'debate'. You guys are taking this to such levels that it doesn't need to go.

Well AFI is well established film organization so whether you or babydoll don't think they are doesn't really matter because they DO matter. IMDB is another site that a lot of people reference so again like AFI they DO matter whether you like it or not. So if you and babydoll want to form an alliance or something and state that AFI and IMDB don't matter fine but they do matter. As much as I love acclaimedmusic and TSPDT those sites/organizations don't reach the masses like AFI/IMDB.

Furthermore you point out that Vertigo, 2001, Tokyo Story are on top of theyshootpictures list. You are missing the point here and I think you are missing the OP's point and that is those movies are not on or at the top of MANY lists and not just a few here and there. I think the OP is looking for a consensus acclaimed. If you can point out where those movies are the consensus top 5 or 10 movies then I stand corrected. I don't get why you guys are so hell bent on continuing to nitpick about this. I just picked those movies (The Godfather and The Godfather Part II, Shawshank Redemption, Casablanca) because they are on or at the top of a lot of lists. This is not a debate about which movies are better or which lists are better.

If you want to debate, debate the lists of items the OP mentioned but I'm not the one you should be picking a fight with. He posted a list I gave some alternatives, why don't you do the same instead of debating with me. That would help a lot more. He asked the question 'Do you agree..'
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Re: Do you agree that these are the most acclaimed works of their respective mediums?

Post by BleuPanda »

bootsy wrote:If you can point out where those movies are the consensus top 5 or 10 movies then I stand corrected. I don't get why you guys are so hell bent on continuing to nitpick about this. I just picked those movies (The Godfather and The Godfather Part II, Shawshank Redemption, Casablanca) because they are on or at the top of a lot of lists. This is not a debate about which movies are better or which lists are better.

TSPDT is an aggregate, and it provides a PDF that lists everyone that has listed a film among the best if you truly want to know what movies make a lot of top lists:
http://www.theyshootpictures.com/websit ... hoices.pdf

The Shawshank Redemption gets half a page of mentions, Tokyo Story gets about 5 full pages.
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Re: Do you agree that these are the most acclaimed works of their respective mediums?

Post by bootsy »

BleuPanda wrote:
bootsy wrote:If you can point out where those movies are the consensus top 5 or 10 movies then I stand corrected. I don't get why you guys are so hell bent on continuing to nitpick about this. I just picked those movies (The Godfather and The Godfather Part II, Shawshank Redemption, Casablanca) because they are on or at the top of a lot of lists. This is not a debate about which movies are better or which lists are better.

TSPDT is an aggregate, and it provides a PDF that lists everyone that has listed a film among the best if you truly want to know what movies make a lot of top lists:
http://www.theyshootpictures.com/websit ... hoices.pdf

The Shawshank Redemption gets half a page of mentions, Tokyo Story gets about 5 full pages.
I got it TSPDT is an aggregate, great I don't care. That's not what the OP asked. The OP asked 'Do you agree that these are the most acclaimed works of their respective mediums?' No one has really challenged that question in here except me. Instead it's been 'my lists or movies is better than yours'. If the OP wanted to know what acclaimed list is the best then that's what he would have asked for. And I'm pretty sure I would have mentioned TSPDT because I love that site but that's not what he asked for.
Argue amongst yourselves whose lists or movies are better at this point I don't care. I just can't anymore. You people have gone off the tracks as to what the OP was looking for. Good Lord.
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Re: Do you agree that these are the most acclaimed works of their respective mediums?

Post by BleuPanda »

I'm just saying, if we're looking for the objective 'most acclaimed,' the best option is to add up all the mentions from various sources. In which case, I'd have to argue TSPDT would be a good source to prove Citizen Kane is the most acclaimed film by volume of mentions in other sources; that site has done our work for us. How is this not related to the original question of whether Citizen Kane is the most acclaimed film?

Though a discussion of 'what's number 1' is kind of old by this point, and I don't see the purpose of limiting yourself to one. Most people wouldn't get Citizen Kane as a standalone work, as part of what makes a piece of art work is how it compares to a more typical example of its field. So why discuss any medium as if there's one central work? Even a hundred is rather limiting for most fields; art (and especially discussion around art) is largely intertextual. So, sure, Citizen Kane might take the #1 spot in discussion, but who cares? What does that title even mean? Most of that discussion is going to be done in relation to other works.
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Re: Do you agree that these are the most acclaimed works of their respective mediums?

Post by babydoll »

bootsy wrote:Furthermore you point out that Vertigo, 2001, Tokyo Story are on top of theyshootpictures list. You are missing the point here and I think you are missing the OP's point and that is those movies are not on or at the top of MANY lists and not just a few here and there. I think the OP is looking for a consensus acclaimed. If you can point out where those movies are the consensus top 5 or 10 movies then I stand corrected. I don't get why you guys are so hell bent on continuing to nitpick about this. I just picked those movies (The Godfather and The Godfather Part II, Shawshank Redemption, Casablanca) because they are on or at the top of a lot of lists. This is not a debate about which movies are better or which lists are better.
Can I just say that I think you're kinda missing the point here as why I chose those three? Because the three I mentioned are on a LOT of lists. Vertigo was the number one film on the Sight & Sound poll's list as chosen by critics (of which 191 critics voted for it) and number seven on the Sight & Sound poll's list as chosen by directors (of which 31 directors voted for it). 846 people voted overall in the list, and considering that 222 people from all over the world voted for Vertigo, that's pretty damn impressive. Tokyo Story ended up #1 on the directors' list and #5 on the critics' list. 2001: A Space Odyssey ended up being #2 on the directors' list and #6 on the critics' list. Literally, over a hundred people from all over the world voted for all these movies.

Sight & Sound is the one list that serious movie lovers take seriously. These films were chosen by people who have a passionate love for cinema and have learned everything there is to know about it. This is not the general public who may have seen a couple of box office hits based on word of mouth from their fellow office workers who saw these films either by sheer luck or from being exposed to the extensive promotion, this was curated by a worldwide community of well-respected (well, maybe in the case of Armond White, just plain well-known), who have studied probably every aspect of cinema for a long while. How is it that The Shawshank Redemption typically merely looked over by such a devout community almost every single time? Because it's not considered to be on the level of Citizen Kane or Vertigo. Yes, if you haven't noticed, people are such intellectual snobs. TSPDT doesn't accept lists like IMDB where a person could have voted for only one movie (and it could very well have been the only movie they've ever seen) and used it to benefit the ranking of the film they're voting for. People are like that. Plus, wasn't there a time The Dark Knight was actually #1, but a lot of people were outraged that such a newer film was #1 so they voted negatively against it? It's things like this that makes such a public-oriented list totally bogus.

Oh, and the AFI's list. It doesn't take only the quality of the movies into question. It takes a lot of other factors into question such as how successful it was at the box office and/or on the home video format, how many awards it has won, popularity over time, and cultural impact. Casablanca has been a very popular movie in the seventy-five years since it was last released, but with serious film lovers, its appraise has actually gone down in recent decades. Compare that to the three films that I've mentioned of which its appraisal have only risen. Oh, and Vertigo is #9, and if AFI ever does a list like this again, it'll more than likely rise.
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Re: Do you agree that these are the most acclaimed works of their respective mediums?

Post by Henrik »

I think you are talking about different kinds of acclaim. For critical acclaim the best source is probably TSPDT; clearly not IMDB. For acclaim from movie-goers in general the best source is probably IMDB; clearly not TSPDT.
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Re: Do you agree that these are the most acclaimed works of their respective mediums?

Post by bootsy »

Henrik wrote:I think you are talking about different kinds of acclaim. For critical acclaim the best source is probably TSPDT; clearly not IMDB. For acclaim from movie-goers in general the best source is probably IMDB; clearly not TSPDT.
That's not the point of this topic. The OP is not asking about what list is the most acclaimed. He's asking are these mediums the most acclaimed. I haven't missed any point. I tried to answer the OP's question and then it got into IMDB sucks and TSPDT is better and Toyko Story is a better movie than Shawshank and so on. That's when I decided to bail. The topic got completely derailed by that. It would have been nice if others would have shared what they thought were the most acclaimed TV show, movie, book, game, and album but that didn't happen. Like I said before I'm done. I tried OP.
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