Pro Wrestling

Post Reply
User avatar
Arsalan
Different Class
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:18 am

Pro Wrestling

Post by Arsalan »

Hi Forum!

I started watching pro wrestling when i was a kid,I am now watching it for 8 years.I have done so many researches about it and have watched all important matches,promos,documentaries since the 80s and also from other promotions than WWE like TNA,ROH,NJPW and WCW and even WWF.So I can call myself a die hard fan.This is how much i know about wrestling.

Now i want to know your opinion about this subject.Are you a fan?,What are your favorite Rivalries,Matches or Wrestlers?What do you think of pro wrestling now and it's difference from past eras? and ... .
User avatar
ordinaryperson
Movin' On Up
Posts: 931
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:23 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by ordinaryperson »

I was 9 years old when I started watching wrestling, the first big event I remember watching was WrestleMania 25. Until 2011 I only casually paid attention to wrestling (really just WWE stuff), when CM Punk's 'pipebomb' promo happened that's when I started really following it, looking up old wrestling matches on YouTube, again it was mostly just WWE stuff. Around 2014 is when I stopped paying attention to wrestling at all, I didn't really like the newer wrestlers and thought all of the storylines were boring, plus Undertaker's streak ending didn't help with this either. I gave AEW a chance when it started airing on TV and I found that I really enjoyed it. This got me to pay attention to wrestling a lot more than I ever had before. I got a subscription to WWE Network and have been watching a ton of old wrestling matches. I'll list some of my favorites here:

Favorite Wrestler: Bret Hart (Honorable Mentions: Sting, Mick Foley, & Kenny Omega)
Favorite Storyline: The initial nWo run (July 1996-December 1997) (I actually like the WCW better than a lot of the old WWF stuff)
Favorite Match: Bret Hart vs. 'Stone Cold' Steve Austin (Wrestlemania 13) (Honorable Mention: Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega (Wrestle Kingdom 11))

Despite one of my favorite matches being from it I've never really watched NJPW, I might watch the G1 Climax which is coming up soon. One of the other things I like now that I've rediscovered my love for wrestling is the internet community. I love watching OSW Review, my favorite episode of their's has to be the All Aboard the Lex Express episode.
There is No More Firmament.
User avatar
Arsalan
Different Class
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:18 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Arsalan »

ordinaryperson wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:31 am I was 9 years old when I started watching wrestling, the first big event I remember watching was WrestleMania 25. Until 2011 I only casually paid attention to wrestling (really just WWE stuff), when CM Punk's 'pipebomb' promo happened that's when I started really following it, looking up old wrestling matches on YouTube, again it was mostly just WWE stuff. Around 2014 is when I stopped paying attention to wrestling at all, I didn't really like the newer wrestlers and thought all of the storylines were boring, plus Undertaker's streak ending didn't help with this either. I gave AEW a chance when it started airing on TV and I found that I really enjoyed it. This got me to pay attention to wrestling a lot more than I ever had before. I got a subscription to WWE Network and have been watching a ton of old wrestling matches. I'll list some of my favorites here:

Favorite Wrestler: Bret Hart (Honorable Mentions: Sting, Mick Foley, & Kenny Omega)
Favorite Storyline: The initial nWo run (July 1996-December 1997) (I actually like the WCW better than a lot of the old WWF stuff)
Favorite Match: Bret Hart vs. 'Stone Cold' Steve Austin (Wrestlemania 13) (Honorable Mention: Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega (Wrestle Kingdom 11))

Despite one of my favorite matches being from it I've never really watched NJPW, I might watch the G1 Climax which is coming up soon. One of the other things I like now that I've rediscovered my love for wrestling is the internet community. I love watching OSW Review, my favorite episode of their's has to be the All Aboard the Lex Express episode.
Wow pipebomb was really a big thing and when that happened i had just started watching wrestling and i didn't know why that was a big deal but after some years when i revisited that i realized how great CM Punk cut that promo. Definitely one of the most iconic moments in history.
About AEW i have watched some of their stuff,They are a great rival for WWE.
Bret Hart is your favorite wrestler. I am a fan too.His Character is one of the all time greats. He was really a cool guy and with a unique wrestling technique,Unfortunately Vince McMahon's Controversial decision ruined his career(The Montreal Screwjob).
The interesting thing is that you choose wrestle kingdom 11 match of Okada vs Omega(A Great match) but i prefer Dominion 6.9 match.Hart vs Austin is a classic. Unfortunately since CM Punk's departure WWE hasn't brought any interesting idea,Except 2016 Draft that worked for a 6 or 7 months.Right Now NXT and AEW are having a battle and i believe that both are doing great job.
User avatar
Live in Phoenix
Full of Fire
Posts: 2503
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:50 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Live in Phoenix »

I started watching around 1988. (As a trivia note, the first time I probably ever saw the current President was when he was shown during WrestleMania IV.) For reasons that I don't totally remember, considering I had seen little or no pro wrestling, I saw the cover of that VHS tape advertising Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant, and I knew that I needed to see that match. Hogan might still be my favorite wrestler, even though that would now be considered absurd since wrestlers perform so many more moves today (though I feel like you can perform too many moves).

I feel like it has somehow lost its grip on me over the years. One of the last good memories I have is when I attended a PPV where Bray Wyatt unexpectedly won the world title (or whatever they technically call it) in an Elimination Chamber match with a hot crowd. There is more than enough product out there that should satisfy fans, but even with changing styles I kinda feel like I've seen it all. It didn't help that the Raw show became inessential quite a while ago. If current fans still love wrestling, then more power to them. If I'm phased out as a fan, that's fine, I'm not mad. Maybe to love some companies more, I would need to put in more time, which I don't especially have.

I've watched AEW sometimes with my infant daughter, and I joke that I'm just carrying on the tradition; my great-grandmother and grandma on my mother's side used to watch back in the days of Gorgeous George and like 1 TV channel. (Certainly the product and the wrestlers are not like the '40s/'50s anymore.)

I like characters and (unscripted) promos a lot, and my favorite character was Stone Cold; my favorite at playing both sides was Roddy Piper; my favorite all-around, if not Hogan, then it's probably HBK. My favorite matches are the first two Flair/Steamboat PPV matches from 1989. Rivalries fade away a bit for me just because there are so many rivalries, but early WCW/NWO and Austin/McMahon come to mind. My favorite promo might be Shawn Michaels taunting Montreal a week or so before his match with Hogan.
User avatar
Arsalan
Different Class
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:18 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Arsalan »

Live in Phoenix wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:35 pm I started watching around 1988. (As a trivia note, the first time I probably ever saw the current President was when he was shown during WrestleMania IV.) For reasons that I don't totally remember, considering I had seen little or no pro wrestling, I saw the cover of that VHS tape advertising Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant, and I knew that I needed to see that match. Hogan might still be my favorite wrestler, even though that would now be considered absurd since wrestlers perform so many more moves today (though I feel like you can perform too many moves).

I feel like it has somehow lost its grip on me over the years. One of the last good memories I have is when I attended a PPV where Bray Wyatt unexpectedly won the world title (or whatever they technically call it) in an Elimination Chamber match with a hot crowd. There is more than enough product out there that should satisfy fans, but even with changing styles I kinda feel like I've seen it all. It didn't help that the Raw show became inessential quite a while ago. If current fans still love wrestling, then more power to them. If I'm phased out as a fan, that's fine, I'm not mad. Maybe to love some companies more, I would need to put in more time, which I don't especially have.

I've watched AEW sometimes with my infant daughter, and I joke that I'm just carrying on the tradition; my great-grandmother and grandma on my mother's side used to watch back in the days of Gorgeous George and like 1 TV channel. (Certainly the product and the wrestlers are not like the '40s/'50s anymore.)

I like characters and (unscripted) promos a lot, and my favorite character was Stone Cold; my favorite at playing both sides was Roddy Piper; my favorite all-around, if not Hogan, then it's probably HBK. My favorite matches are the first two Flair/Steamboat PPV matches from 1989. Rivalries fade away a bit for me just because there are so many rivalries, but early WCW/NWO and Austin/McMahon come to mind. My favorite promo might be Shawn Michaels taunting Montreal a week or so before his match with Hogan.
You are an old school fan! Hulk Hogan was like the most important superstar back then in the 80s and his match vs. Andre is considered by wrestling Fans "Iconic" but the match is so slow and only that bodyslam on Andre is memorable,As you said less moves but within that year or 89 we have Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat trilogy that has more moves,not slow,storytelling at it's best but less fans have seen that so i don't get it why guys like Hogan and Ultimate Warrior or Randy Savage were always at the top.WCW was always better than WWF in the 80s.
I should respect your Grandmother for watching wrestling in the 50s.It is so cool.
I agree that Stone Cold is the greatest character ever and perhaps the best wrestler i have ever seen.Especially his promos.That promo from Michaels in Canada was one of the most heelish thing that a babyface superstar has done.
Last edited by Arsalan on Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Live in Phoenix
Full of Fire
Posts: 2503
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:50 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Live in Phoenix »

Arsalan wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:05 am i don't get it why guys like Hogan and Ultimate Warrior or Randy Savage were always at the top.
Randy Savage’s own match with Ricky Steamboat, at that same WrestleMania as Hogan/Andre, was considered the WWF’s best match for years. Around 2003, the kayfabe-ish magazine PWI said it was the best WWF/E match ever (now it would probably be Undertaker/Michaels I at WrestleMania).

An amazing thing about Flair/Steamboat is that I didn’t even get to see the matches until about 15 years after the fact! Wrestling companies’ home video history was in shambles until streaming and DVD box sets. I didn’t have good access to WCW until the late ‘90s, but I figured that company was a big deal, between them having cable instead of syndication, as well as stuff like reading some grocery store magazine saying that Ric Flair wrestled a 50-some minute, 2 out of 3 match -- holy crap! As far as WWE being the lesser product, it’s basically always had that reputation amongst hardcore fans. One factor for their dominance is that great matches by themselves have only meant so much for business, although they matter more to fans nowadays.

Not that Grandma and I made a habit of watching WWF Superstars together, but one time she sat down in the same room while I had it on, and I thought something like, “Oh boy, here come the remarks,” but to my surprise she chuckled and said something about Gorgeous George. (I remember the name, oddly enough, because the cartoonish trading card set Garbage Pail Kids had a card named Gorgeous George.) I’m sure in that era of very few TV channels, wrestling was getting ratings that the Monday Night Wars of the ‘90s could only imagine.

I can’t find the old post, but I think prosecutorgodot is a fan who had once mentioned Dynamite Kid’s passing.
User avatar
ordinaryperson
Movin' On Up
Posts: 931
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:23 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by ordinaryperson »

The G1 Climax started today and I subscribed to NJPW World to watch it. This was the first time I have ever watched a full NJPW event. I'm not the best at critiquing a wrestling match but I did find night 1 to be pretty enjoyable, my favorite match of the night was Jay White vs. Shingo Takagi. In the US, the Best Friends vs. Santana & Ortiz parking lot brawl at the end of this week's AEW Dynamite got 5 stars from Dave Meltzer. Of course I fell asleep while watching Dynamite and missed the majority of the match, I only woke up during the part when Orange Cassidy came out the car trunk. I watched the full match on YouTube yesterday and I loved the chaos of it but I don't really see what made it different than any other 'hardcore' match. This is also the first time since Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk in 1989 that Meltzer has given a 5 star rating to a match that was free on TV. Then again as I've stated already, I'm not good at critiquing wrestling matches.
There is No More Firmament.
Jirin
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3350
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:12 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Jirin »

I’m one of the people who was young enough to think it was real when I first watched it then turned it off when I learned it was fake.

I probably would have appreciated it more if I saw it first after I knew it was a performance.
User avatar
Arsalan
Different Class
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:18 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Arsalan »

Jirin wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:30 pm I’m one of the people who was young enough to think it was real when I first watched it then turned it off when I learned it was fake.

I probably would have appreciated it more if I saw it first after I knew it was a performance.
So you watch movies cause they are real?!
User avatar
Arsalan
Different Class
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:18 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Arsalan »

ordinaryperson wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:18 pm The G1 Climax started today and I subscribed to NJPW World to watch it. This was the first time I have ever watched a full NJPW event. I'm not the best at critiquing a wrestling match but I did find night 1 to be pretty enjoyable, my favorite match of the night was Jay White vs. Shingo Takagi. In the US, the Best Friends vs. Santana & Ortiz parking lot brawl at the end of this week's AEW Dynamite got 5 stars from Dave Meltzer. Of course I fell asleep while watching Dynamite and missed the majority of the match, I only woke up during the part when Orange Cassidy came out the car trunk. I watched the full match on YouTube yesterday and I loved the chaos of it but I don't really see what made it different than any other 'hardcore' match. This is also the first time since Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk in 1989 that Meltzer has given a 5 star rating to a match that was free on TV. Then again as I've stated already, I'm not good at critiquing wrestling matches.
Dave Meltzer is a strange guy,He gave this match that wasn't even on PPV 5 star rating while he gave HBK vs The Undertaker 4.75 star rating(both WM 25 and 26),Although the Best Friends vs. Santana & Ortiz was a great match but better than those legendary matches? Please.
Last edited by Arsalan on Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Jirin
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3350
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:12 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Jirin »

Arsalan wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:29 am
Jirin wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:30 pm I’m one of the people who was young enough to think it was real when I first watched it then turned it off when I learned it was fake.

I probably would have appreciated it more if I saw it first after I knew it was a performance.
So you watch movies cause they are real?!
Movies never claimed to be, or stage themselves like they are. *Now* they're honest and open about it all being staged, back then they weren't being honest.
Gillingham
Into the Groove
Posts: 2022
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:33 pm
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Gillingham »

I started hearing about it slightly later than Live in Phoenix (early nineties?). Was really into it as a very small kid. Collected a lot of stickers. The Ultimate Warrior used to be my favorite. Grew out of it though. Don't care for it now, at all.
User avatar
Arsalan
Different Class
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:18 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Arsalan »

Top 5 Matches of the Year so far:

1 - The Young Bucks Vs. Kenny Omega and Adam Page (AEW Revolution) (AEW Tag Team Championship Match)
2 - Edge Vs. Randy Orton (WWE Backlash) (Singles Match)
3 - AJ Styles Vs. Daniel Bryan (WWE Smackdown) (Intercontinental Championship Match)
4 - AJ Styles Vs. The Undertaker (WWE Wrestlemania 36) (Boneyard Match)
5 - Matt Hardy and The Elite Vs. The Inner Circle (AEW Double or Nothing) (Stadium Stampede Match)
User avatar
ordinaryperson
Movin' On Up
Posts: 931
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:23 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by ordinaryperson »

Did everyone watch the 'Winter is Coming' edition of AEW Dynamite?
There is No More Firmament.
User avatar
Arsalan
Different Class
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:18 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Arsalan »

ordinaryperson wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:33 am Did everyone watch the 'Winter is Coming' edition of AEW Dynamite?
I watched the main event only.
User avatar
Arsalan
Different Class
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:18 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Arsalan »

Okay, 2020 is ending soon so How about ranking our personal favorite matches of 2020?

If any of the forumers are interested to participate, they can post their favorite matches of the year here. Although it seems we don't have enough wrestling fans here, we can still continue this discussion.
User avatar
ordinaryperson
Movin' On Up
Posts: 931
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:23 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by ordinaryperson »

My favorite match of 2020 would be between Omega & Page vs. The Young Bucks, WALTER vs. Dragunov, and the Royal Rumble.

R.I.P. Brodie Lee
There is No More Firmament.
User avatar
Arsalan
Different Class
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:18 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Arsalan »

ordinaryperson wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:38 am My favorite match of 2020 would be between Omega & Page vs. The Young Bucks, WALTER vs. Dragunov, and the Royal Rumble.

R.I.P. Brodie Lee
Love your picks! I also recommend Ospreay vs Takahashi from Wrestle Kingdom 14 if you haven't seen it yet.
User avatar
Live in Phoenix
Full of Fire
Posts: 2503
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:50 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Live in Phoenix »

For no big reason, other than I was talking about it recently with my younger brother, here are my top 10 favorite pro wrestling stars (in theory, based on ring work, personality, and interviews... in practice, based on 2 out of 3 sometimes). It's a hopeless, even laughable task, even for the serious fan, because there are a million billion matches, interviews, and TV storylines to work with, in more than one country, and across many different eras, including before television. A list probably just shows what era you grew up watching -- but, you know, we make lists around here.

1. Hulk Hogan
2. Stone Cold Steve Austin
3. Shawn Michaels
4. Randy "Macho Man" Savage
5. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper
6. Ric Flair
7. Kurt Angle
8. Chris Benoit
9. Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat
10. Bret "The Hitman" Hart
Honorable mentions to the Dynamite Kid and Tiger Mask, who arguably created (or at least perfectly symbolized) the modern era.

No one got removed or docked for personal issues (otherwise throw out pretty much every name).

A more historical list from about 20 years ago (with much more emphasis on being a box office draw) had the following top 10: 1. Ric Flair. 2. Lou Thesz. 3. Rikidozan. 4. Antonio Inoki. 5. Hulk Hogan. 6. Andre the Giant. 7. El Santo. 8. Giant Baba. 9. Stone Cold Steve Austin. 10. Buddy Rogers. (Top 100 Pro Wrestlers of All Time -- John Molinaro, Jeff Marek, Dave Meltzer)

If my viewing was more 21st century-oriented, instead of late 20th century, and was also more international, I assume my top 10 would look something like (in alphabetical order): Daniel Bryan/Bryan Danielson, Chris Jericho, Kenta Kobashi, Mitsuharu Misawa, Kazuchika Okada, Kenny Omega, Will Ospreay, Zach Sabre Jr., Manami Toyota, plus an old name.
User avatar
Arsalan
Different Class
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:18 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Arsalan »

Live in Phoenix wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:26 pm For no big reason, other than I was talking about it recently with my younger brother, here are my top 10 favorite pro wrestling stars (in theory, based on ring work, personality, and interviews... in practice, based on 2 out of 3 sometimes). It's a hopeless, even laughable task, even for the serious fan, because there are a million billion matches, interviews, and TV storylines to work with, in more than one country, and across many different eras, including before television. A list probably just shows what era you grew up watching -- but, you know, we make lists around here.

1. Hulk Hogan
2. Stone Cold Steve Austin
3. Shawn Michaels
4. Randy "Macho Man" Savage
5. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper
6. Ric Flair
7. Kurt Angle
8. Chris Benoit
9. Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat
10. Bret "The Hitman" Hart
Honorable mentions to the Dynamite Kid and Tiger Mask, who arguably created (or at least perfectly symbolized) the modern era.

No one got removed or docked for personal issues (otherwise throw out pretty much every name).

A more historical list from about 20 years ago (with much more emphasis on being a box office draw) had the following top 10: 1. Ric Flair. 2. Lou Thesz. 3. Rikidozan. 4. Antonio Inoki. 5. Hulk Hogan. 6. Andre the Giant. 7. El Santo. 8. Giant Baba. 9. Stone Cold Steve Austin. 10. Buddy Rogers. (Top 100 Pro Wrestlers of All Time -- John Molinaro, Jeff Marek, Dave Meltzer)

If my viewing was more 21st century-oriented, instead of late 20th century, and was also more international, I assume my top 10 would look something like (in alphabetical order): Daniel Bryan/Bryan Danielson, Chris Jericho, Kenta Kobashi, Mitsuharu Misawa, Kazuchika Okada, Kenny Omega, Will Ospreay, Zach Sabre Jr., Manami Toyota, plus an old name.
Thanks a lot for sharing your lists! It's hard to argue with your all-time list. I really like your 21st century one but it's not really fair to do a 21st century list without AJ Styles or Hiroshi Tanahashi. Tanahashi saved NJPW and Styles is the most influential wrestler of the century.

My top 25 wrestlers of the 21st century list (in no order): John Cena, Hiroshi Tanahashi, Kazuchika Okada, AJ Styles, Daniel Bryan, Kenta Kobashi, Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Kenny Omega, CM Punk, Will Ospreay, Kota Ibushi, Tetsuya Naito, Edge, Shawn Michaels, Shinsuke Nakamura, Chris Benoit, Samoa Joe, WALTER, ZSJ, HHH, The Undertaker and Io Shirai.

My top 15 wrestlers of all time (in no order): Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels, Steve Austin, Bret Hart, Kenta Kobashi, Mitsuharu Misawa, The Rock, AJ Styles, Hiroshi Tanahashi, Mick Foley, Rey Mysterio, Kazuchika Okada, Manami Toyota, Ricky Steamboat and Kurt Angle.
Nassim
Full of Fire
Posts: 2793
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:35 pm
Location: Lille (France)

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Nassim »

I watched wrestling intermittently, so I mostly followed it from about 92 to 96, then 2007 to 2010 and then from 2015 until today (though between 2010 and 2015 I have always found time to watch the Royal Rumble).

That can explain some big omissions in my all time favs list, given that I missed Steve Austin, the Rock, Mankind or Kurt Angle glory days.

My top 10 :
1. Bret Hart
2. Shawn Michaels
3. Edge
4. The Undertaker
5. CM Punk
6. Chris Jericho
7. Becky Lynch
8. AJ Styles
9. Kevin Owens
10. The New Day

Honorary mentions : Sheamus, Hardy Boyz, Daniel Bryan, Rey Mysterio, Randy Orton, John Morrison
Special places in 10 year old Nassim's heart : 1-2-3 Kid, the Steiner Brothers, Tatanka, Marty Jannetty, the Bushwackers, Koko B Ware

I think if better booked, Cesaro would be in there, the guy is incredible !
If properly booked, I think Johnny Gargano, Adam Cole and Ricochet could make the list too.
User avatar
Live in Phoenix
Full of Fire
Posts: 2503
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:50 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Live in Phoenix »

Nassim wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:48 pm I watched wrestling intermittently, so I mostly followed it from about 92 to 96
Interesting -- '92 through much of '96 is when a lot of people (including me) weren't watching, because Hulk Hogan had lost steam, and it was before Stone Cold/The Rock/The NWO, etc. But that was the start of match quality becoming more important in the WWF.
Nassim
Full of Fire
Posts: 2793
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:35 pm
Location: Lille (France)

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Nassim »

Live in Phoenix wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:27 pm
Nassim wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:48 pm I watched wrestling intermittently, so I mostly followed it from about 92 to 96
Interesting -- '92 through much of '96 is when a lot of people (including me) weren't watching, because Hulk Hogan had lost steam, and it was before Stone Cold/The Rock/The NWO, etc. But that was the start of match quality becoming more important in the WWF.
I think it's mostly due to WWF/WWE not, or barely, being broadcast in France at that time after a few years when it was popular with kids my age.
But the razor thin line-up of 95 and 96 didn't help, the Royal Rumble from those years are packed full of either bland or terrible gimmicks. One of the last things I remember is fake Diesel and fake Razor Ramon (due to the "real"ones leaving to WCW that I didn't know existed back then) which was just ridiculous and made me lose a big part of my interest as the "real" ones were wrestlers I enjoyed... (I mean, I also had to go through Giant Gonzalez, a survivor of 3 mile island, a fighting garbage man and Mantaur...)
User avatar
Live in Phoenix
Full of Fire
Posts: 2503
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:50 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Live in Phoenix »

They're going to discontinue the real Razor Ramon, Scott Hall, from life support shortly. Like Jake "The Snake" Roberts, he was one of pro wrestling's most notorious flameouts who at the same time seemed indestructible. As far as I'm aware, his imminent passing is not due to his days of being an alcoholic, but from a blood clot and heart attacks following hip surgery. If I had a top 10 list of favorite pro wrestling matches, Razor Ramon/Shawn Michaels from WrestleMania X would be on it, with the first major modern-era ladder match, alongside Tiger Mask's debut and the first couple of televised Flair/Steamboat 1989 matches.
User avatar
Live in Phoenix
Full of Fire
Posts: 2503
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:50 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Live in Phoenix »

In honor of Scott Hall, here is the top 10 matches list that I kept meaning to finish. It has the same problems as my top 10 wrestlers list. ("A list probably just shows what era you grew up watching.")

1. Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (Chi-Town Rumble -- February 20, 1989)
2. Dynamite Kid vs. Tiger Mask (April 23, 1981)
3. Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (Clash of the Champions VI: Ragin' Cajun -- April 2, 1989)
4. Triple H & Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho (Raw -- May 21, 2001)
5. Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon a.k.a. Scott Hall (WrestleMania X -- March 20, 1994)
6. Eddy Guerrero vs. Rey Misterio Jr. (Halloween Havoc -- October 26, 1997)
7. Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage (WrestleMania III -- March 29, 1987)
8. Kenta Kobashi vs. Steve Williams (August 31, 1993?)
9. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit (Royal Rumble -- January 19, 2003)
10. Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior (WrestleMania VI -- April 1, 1990)
Nassim
Full of Fire
Posts: 2793
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:35 pm
Location: Lille (France)

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Nassim »

I have relatively hazy non-Bret Hart memories of when I watched wrestling as a kid, but I remember going pretty crazy when the 1-2-3 Kid beat Razor Ramon in 93. I think Razor Ramon was one of the first heel I really enjoyed, though Shawn came first (looking back I can also see how great Owen Hart heel run was, I really despised the guy, but I wasn't happy seeing him).
I also remember being beffudled when "fake" Razor Ramon replaced him (I had no idea of the reason back then, or even that WCW existed) which is one of the things that made me quit watching wrestling between 96 and some time around 2006 (and for the 10 years or so that followed I pretty much only watched parts of the big four PPV, the only one I never missed was the Royal Rumble). So having skipped wrestling for those 10 years or so, I missed the non Razor Ramon part of Scott Hall's career (and pretty much everything about The Rock, Steve Austin, Eddie Guerrero, Kurt Angle, Christ Benoit...)

I don't have a ready made list of my favorite matches of all time, but the 2 Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker Wrestlemania matches would probably top them, followed by Daniel Bryan vs Koffi Kingston and Daniel Bryan vs Orton vs Batista.
The various Cena vs Punk, Cena vs Styles, New Day vs Usos, New Day vs The Bar and Adam Cole vs Johnny Gargano matches were pretty great too, as well as all the NXT War Games matches.
And a lot of AEW PPV matches were fantastic recently, especially on the tag team side. (A few non PPV were awesome too, usually with Daniel Bryan in the ring)
User avatar
Live in Phoenix
Full of Fire
Posts: 2503
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:50 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Live in Phoenix »

Nassim wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 1:40 pm I also remember being befuddled when "fake" Razor Ramon replaced him (I had no idea of the reason back then, or even that WCW existed) which is one of the things that made me quit watching wrestling between 96 and some time around 2006
It's kind of funny what makes people stop watching. I dropped a lot of favorite things cold during high school, though I returned to most all of them some years later. Pro wrestling in retrospect was cold during that time, anyway, though I missed some great performances. It's really stupid to think about it now, but once Hulk Hogan wasn't in the WWF picture, I couldn't buy someone like Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels as champion. (They're just half a tag team, so who cares about these guys, amirite?) On some level, some people, like me, must have thought the pro wrestling craze was just an '80s thing that had come and gone. Later, the WWF and WCW exploded in popularity, and I stopped watching WCW because I thought Goldberg was some kind of Stone Cold ripoff (visually pretty similar; attitude-wise, not really, except for the impression I got during the episode I watched when he blew off the interviewer). Of all the reasons to stop watching WCW, though I occasionally put it on, and wasn't impressed. I had no idea they were historically awful and were about to go under. These days, I don't watch a whole lot, because...I don't know what. Wrestling's changed, or I've come close to some saturation point. (The WWE's Cena era and scripted promos certainly didn't help. Though they're just one company out there -- it's no longer them, and "everyone else.")
User avatar
Live in Phoenix
Full of Fire
Posts: 2503
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:50 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Live in Phoenix »

The end of an era. Vince ran WWF/E since 1982, and had worked for it since the early '70s. He retires in the wake of a ton of sexual misconduct allegations.

Vince McMahon announces retirement from WWE
Stephanie McMahon and Nick Khan have been named the new co-CEOs of the company.


https://www.f4wonline.com/news/wwe/vinc ... t-from-wwe
User avatar
Arsalan
Different Class
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:18 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Arsalan »

The biggest wrestling story of the past 15 years by far.
User avatar
Live in Phoenix
Full of Fire
Posts: 2503
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:50 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Live in Phoenix »

ESPN and journalist Dave Meltzer both agree Vince Kennedy McMahon was "the most important person in the history of professional wrestling." For better or worse, McMahon was the kingpin of wrestling for as long as I've watched it, going back to the '80s. It's been noted that the WWE was about to have a show in Madison Square Garden, which has strong historical ties with them, and that for Vince to miss out on that (and SummerSlam for that matter, typically one of the biggest shows of the year) means his ass needed to resign immediately. He quickly rushed out a tweet that was like, "I'm retiring, k bye."

"At 77, time for me to retire.
Thank you, WWE Universe.
Then. Now. Forever. Together. #WWE #thankful"

I think a lot of viewers have been interested for years, practically decades, in seeing a Vince-less WWE product. You could often expect a good baseline product, but I felt like his sense of innovation had curdled; also, he was a micro-manager, and I felt like he was holding the company in his grasp so tightly that he was suffocating it. His reign as king came crashing down in about the space of a month, after the allegations went public. Otherwise, he could have gone on for another 10 years or something. So now we're suddenly going to see what happens to the product, and it's going to be some very interesting months ahead, as long as Vince doesn't try to pull the strings in the shadows. It's sort of like the Star Wars movies without Lucas -- if they're a success, your criticism feels vindicated, and if they fail, well, you're out of the usual excuses.
ritayong
The Only Way Is Up
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:21 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by ritayong »

Pro-wrestling is one of the things i’m most passionate about. Grew up watching it as a kid and grew to love it. I could literally write a book on all of the reasons on why i love it.
adora18
Debut
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:16 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by adora18 »

useful sharing. I will follow you often word counter
blabling2
Debut
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:55 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by blabling2 »

Live in Phoenix wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 6:02 pm They're going to discontinue the real Razor Ramon, Scott Hall, from life support shortly. Like Jake "The Snake" Roberts, he was one of pro wrestling's most notorious flameouts who at the same time seemed indestructible. As far as I'm aware, his imminent passing is not due to his days of being an alcoholic, but from a blood clot and heart attacks following hip surgery. If I had a top 10 list of favorite pro wrestling matches, Razor Ramon/Shawn Michaels from WrestleMania X would be on it, with the first major modern-era ladder match, alongside Tiger Mask's debut and the first couple of televised Flair/Steamboat 1989 matches.connect 4
I hope for a brighter result
User avatar
Live in Phoenix
Full of Fire
Posts: 2503
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:50 am

Re: Pro Wrestling

Post by Live in Phoenix »

blabling2 wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:00 am
Live in Phoenix wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 6:02 pm They're going to discontinue the real Razor Ramon, Scott Hall, from life support shortly. Like Jake "The Snake" Roberts, he was one of pro wrestling's most notorious flameouts who at the same time seemed indestructible. As far as I'm aware, his imminent passing is not due to his days of being an alcoholic, but from a blood clot and heart attacks following hip surgery. If I had a top 10 list of favorite pro wrestling matches, Razor Ramon/Shawn Michaels from WrestleMania X would be on it, with the first major modern-era ladder match, alongside Tiger Mask's debut and the first couple of televised Flair/Steamboat 1989 matches.connect 4
I hope for a brighter result
You're not real.
Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”