Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Nassim »

Hymie wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:54 pm
jdizzle83 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:20 pm
Hymie wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:27 pm

Not me. I said they're too young.
You literally wrote, regarding “Smells Like Teen Spirit”:
“I'd be surprised if it's even Top 50. Most of the voters are older folks like me who don't even like the record.”
MOST of the voters are over 30. Do you agree?
Smells Like Teen Spirit is a 30 year old song, so assuming it only appealed to teens, that would still be a touchstone song for people between 40 and 50. Given that it most likely was also huge for people in their 20s and still seem to resonate with teens today, you can assume that it would appear in a lot of people under 60 list.
In any case, the song was #9 the last time around and the voters pool will, if the album update is any indication, get younger. I mean even if it stays the same age, it would still mean the average year of birth would be 17 years more recent. So it "not making it to the top 50 because older people don't like it" doesn't make any sense.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Nassim »

Hymie wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:56 pm How many important people in the record industry are under 30?
I guess that depends on your definition of what are important people in the record industry, but if you look at the biggest sellers (or streamers) of the past few years you'll find a lot of artists below 30 with a lot of artistic and marketing agency : BTS, Justin Bieber, Ariana Grande, Lil Nas X, Post Malone, Harry Styles... Ed Sheeran just reached 30. Billie Eilish is not even 20 and already have more Grammys than a lot of big names, Lorde's new song is possibly the most hyped musical event so far this year...
And 2 of pop's biggest behemoths right now, Taylor Swift and the Weeknd are just 31.
Today with social networks you need record companies and radio less than you used to, so they have lost a bit of their importance. Obviously they still matter, but BTS never needed any radio coverage to get to Billboard #1 for songs and albums for instance.
And now that streaming has overtaken physical sales, it's also worth noting that streaming services CEOs, while well above 30, are significantly younger than major record companies CEOs.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Jackson »

Nassim wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:15 am
Hymie wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:54 pm
jdizzle83 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:20 pm

You literally wrote, regarding “Smells Like Teen Spirit”:
“I'd be surprised if it's even Top 50. Most of the voters are older folks like me who don't even like the record.”
MOST of the voters are over 30. Do you agree?
Smells Like Teen Spirit is a 30 year old song, so assuming it only appealed to teens, that would still be a touchstone song for people between 40 and 50. Given that it most likely was also huge for people in their 20s and still seem to resonate with teens today, you can assume that it would appear in a lot of people under 60 list.
In any case, the song was #9 the last time around and the voters pool will, if the album update is any indication, get younger. I mean even if it stays the same age, it would still mean the average year of birth would be 17 years more recent. So it "not making it to the top 50 because older people don't like it" doesn't make any sense.
It seems like the rock canon froze in some peoples' minds when Rolling Stone published these famous all-time lists in the early 2000s. Some of the discourse around Smells Like Teen Spirit is as if it is still a "newer" song like it was in 2003. Now it's been 30 years since Smells Like Teen Spirit came out - it's closer on the rock timeline to the debut of the Beatles than it is to today! You are right to point this out in your post Nassim.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

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Jackson wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:43 pm It seems like the rock canon froze in some peoples' minds when Rolling Stone published these famous all-time lists in the early 2000s. Some of the discourse around Smells Like Teen Spirit is as if it is still a "newer" song like it was in 2003. Now it's been 30 years since Smells Like Teen Spirit came out - it's closer on the rock timeline to the debut of the Beatles than it is to today! You are right to point this out in your post Nassim.
"Smells Like Teen Spirit" was released to radio on August 27, 1991. On September 10, it was released as the lead single from Nevermind, Nirvana's major label debut on DGC Records. The song did not initially chart, and it sold well only in regions of the United States with an established Nirvana fanbase.

Must be something wrong with me, as I can only give this thing a 3. I just tried to listen to it and could only get about half way through before I had to shut it off. That stupid "hello-hello-hello-hello+" part is awful IMO.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Gillingham »

Hymie wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:09 pm
Jackson wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:43 pm It seems like the rock canon froze in some peoples' minds when Rolling Stone published these famous all-time lists in the early 2000s. Some of the discourse around Smells Like Teen Spirit is as if it is still a "newer" song like it was in 2003. Now it's been 30 years since Smells Like Teen Spirit came out - it's closer on the rock timeline to the debut of the Beatles than it is to today! You are right to point this out in your post Nassim.
Must be something wrong with me, as I can only give this thing a 3. I just tried to listen to it and could only get about half way through before I had to shut it off. That stupid "hello-hello-hello-hello+" part is awful IMO.
Taste can be a very funny thing, eh?
Wouldn't want it any other way.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

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I'm going to guess just to guess. Percentage error +/- 100%.

2021 Rolling Stone Top 10 songs:
1. Aretha Franklin - Respect
2. The Beatles - A Day in the Life (like when Rolling Stone threw out the band's top 10 albums from 2003 and substituted Abbey Road)
3. Marvin Gaye - What's Going On (maybe too much to give him all the #1 spots)
4. Nirvana - Smells Like Teen Spirit
5. Bob Dylan - Like a Rolling Stone
6. The Rolling Stones - Gimme Shelter (maybe they don't pull the trigger on this, but it beat "Satisfaction" in their 100 Greatest Rolling Stones Songs list)
7. Prince and the Revolution - When Doves Cry (a less older breed of music critic expects some '80s MJ or Prince on the list)
8. The Beach Boys - Good Vibrations (this or "Imagine," but maybe not both)
9. Michael Jackson - Billie Jean
10. Sam Cooke - A Change Is Gonna Come
Last edited by Live in Phoenix on Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

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Yeah, I guess it's too much to give Marvin Gaye all the #1 spots but due to today's culture I feel that it's either a song of a person of color or of a woman or both, which makes "Respect" a very good #1 prediction. "A Change Is Gonna Come" at #1 is also possible, because of it's message, but a long shot compared to "Respect" or "What's Going On" since it's always behind those two in most all-time lists. I also can't see Michael Jackson or Prince at #1 because let's face it, the aforestated songs are more relevant today.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by VanillaFire1000 »

You will see a great reduction of 1950s artists, just because they really have left the cultural consciousness.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Hymie »

VanillaFire1000 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:41 am You will see a great reduction of 1950s artists, just because they really have left the cultural consciousness.
A lot of people who loved 50s music have died in the past 17 years, like Aretha Franklin and Lou Reed. But 50s music is still the favorite stuff of people like Mick Jagger, Paul McCartney, and Paul Simon, guys in their 70s and older.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by jdizzle83 »

Hymie wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:47 pm
VanillaFire1000 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:41 am You will see a great reduction of 1950s artists, just because they really have left the cultural consciousness.
A lot of people who loved 50s music have died in the past 17 years, like Aretha Franklin and Lou Reed. But 50s music is still the favorite stuff of people like Mick Jagger, Paul McCartney, and Paul Simon, guys in their 70s and older.
Yeah I think you’re right. I think the big ones, both song wise and artist wise, will stay. But I think there will definitely be less representation.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Henry »

Live in Phoenix wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:25 pm I'm going to guess just to guess. Percentage error +/- 100%.

2021 Rolling Stone Top 10 songs:
1. Aretha Franklin - Respect
2. The Beatles - A Day in the Life (like when Rolling Stone threw out the band's top 10 albums from 2003 and substituted Abbey Road)
3. Marvin Gaye - What's Going On (maybe too much to give him all the #1 spots)
4. Nirvana - Smells Like Teen Spirit
5. Bob Dylan - Like a Rolling Stone
6. The Rolling Stones - Gimme Shelter (maybe they don't pull the trigger on this, but it beat "Satisfaction" in their 100 Greatest Rolling Stones Songs list)
7. Prince and the Revolution - When Doves Cry (a less older breed of music critic expects some '80s MJ or Prince on the list)
8. The Beach Boys - Good Vibrations (this or "Imagine," but maybe not both)
9. Michael Jackson - Billie Jean
10. Sam Cooke - A Change Is Gonna Come
Excellent guesses.

I would deviate downward regarding Prince and Michael Jackson. But in this matter, I have more confidence in you guess work than mine :-)
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Rob »

Henry wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:16 pm I would deviate downward regarding Prince and Michael Jackson. But in this matter, I have more confidence in you guess work than mine :-)
I mostly doubt they would dare to give Jackson a top 10 position. He's still going to make the whole list and probably the top 100, but considering a lot of people at the moment get filled with pure hatred at the mere mention of Jackson's name I doubt that is something Rolling Stone would want to burn their fingers on. They also added something of a disclaimer to their write-up to Thriller last year.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Hymie »

Rob wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:09 pm
Henry wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:16 pm I would deviate downward regarding Prince and Michael Jackson. But in this matter, I have more confidence in you guess work than mine :-)
I mostly doubt they would dare to give Jackson a top 10 position. He's still going to make the whole list and probably the top 100, but considering a lot of people at the moment get filled with pure hatred at the mere mention of Jackson's name I doubt that is something Rolling Stone would want to burn their fingers on. They also added something of a disclaimer to their write-up to Thriller last year.
"Billie Jean" was #58 last time. It's a great record, far bigger than "SLTS" in my experience both in managing a record store and in DJing in clubs and parties for over 20 years. I never once had a request for "SLTS" and I was DJing through 1995. My store sold bucketloads of "Billie Jean" both on 45 and 12 inch, and of course tons of the album. I can't even remember selling much Nirvana at all, and certainly not the single, and I managed the record shop until 1994.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Live in Phoenix »

Rob wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:09 pm
Henry wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:16 pm I would deviate downward regarding Prince and Michael Jackson. But in this matter, I have more confidence in you guess work than mine :-)
I mostly doubt they would dare to give Jackson a top 10 position. He's still going to make the whole list and probably the top 100, but considering a lot of people at the moment get filled with pure hatred at the mere mention of Jackson's name I doubt that is something Rolling Stone would want to burn their fingers on. They also added something of a disclaimer to their write-up to Thriller last year.
It's certainly possible that Billie Jean misses out, for numerous reasons, but my guess was based on Thriller placing even higher with Rolling Stone in 2020 than 2003, and on Billie Jean now only being one spot short of the top 10 on our main site. His stock if anything is going up. I think it probably has to do with the music critics in power now versus 20 or so years ago. When Entertainment Weekly did a list of the top 100 albums in 2012 and put Purple Rain and Thriller at #2 and #4, when they usually don't place nearly as high, I thought, oh that makes perfect sense if you grew up in the '80s instead of the Summer of Love. I looked it up and they said it outright for Thriller: "If you grew up in the '80s, this isn't just an album; it's the soundtrack to the first half of your life."
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by jdizzle83 »

Hymie wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:31 pm
Rob wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:09 pm
Henry wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:16 pm I would deviate downward regarding Prince and Michael Jackson. But in this matter, I have more confidence in you guess work than mine :-)
I mostly doubt they would dare to give Jackson a top 10 position. He's still going to make the whole list and probably the top 100, but considering a lot of people at the moment get filled with pure hatred at the mere mention of Jackson's name I doubt that is something Rolling Stone would want to burn their fingers on. They also added something of a disclaimer to their write-up to Thriller last year.
"Billie Jean" was #58 last time. It's a great record, far bigger than "SLTS" in my experience both in managing a record store and in DJing in clubs and parties for over 20 years. I never once had a request for "SLTS" and I was DJing through 1995. My store sold bucketloads of "Billie Jean" both on 45 and 12 inch, and of course tons of the album. I can't even remember selling much Nirvana at all, and certainly not the single, and I managed the record shop until 1994.
Dear God does it ever end?
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by jdizzle83 »

If it’s all about sales then they’d just publish a list of best selling singles of all time.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by jdizzle83 »

Live in Phoenix wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:25 pm I'm going to guess just to guess. Percentage error +/- 100%.

2021 Rolling Stone Top 10 songs:
1. Aretha Franklin - Respect
2. The Beatles - A Day in the Life (like when Rolling Stone threw out the band's top 10 albums from 2003 and substituted Abbey Road)
3. Marvin Gaye - What's Going On (maybe too much to give him all the #1 spots)
4. Nirvana - Smells Like Teen Spirit
5. Bob Dylan - Like a Rolling Stone
6. The Rolling Stones - Gimme Shelter (maybe they don't pull the trigger on this, but it beat "Satisfaction" in their 100 Greatest Rolling Stones Songs list)
7. Prince and the Revolution - When Doves Cry (a less older breed of music critic expects some '80s MJ or Prince on the list)
8. The Beach Boys - Good Vibrations (this or "Imagine," but maybe not both)
9. Michael Jackson - Billie Jean
10. Sam Cooke - A Change Is Gonna Come
I think this is a pretty strong guess. I think “Purple Rain” will now rate higher than “When Doves Cry” end I think “God Only Knows” will be higher than “Good Vibrations” so swap in those in my opinion (still think “God Only Knows” might be number one).

Maybe another female act in the top 10 though? Not sure what.

I think “Dreams” by Fleetwood Mac will rank top 100 now? Mostly because of that viral video.

OutKast will have a bunch of songs: “Spottie…”, “BOB,” “Hey Ya,” and “Ms. Jackson.”

“Nothing But A G Thing” will be top 50. What hip hop songs do you think will make the top 50 or 100? I bet A LOT more than last time. A lot of classics were left in the 300 and 400s before.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Fred »

Video Games!

Even I like it. But it is rated at 3.70 at RYM. I don't get it.

Runaway
and a Bowie song because he died.

Oblivion or Let It Happen. Not both.

Sprawl II? - Nah. There is no greatness in looking beyond a mountain or two. It's futile.

Cranes In The Sky...CRANES IN THE SKY!!


---------------------------------------------------------- out --------------------


Bob Dylan - Positively 4th Street
The Beatles - Rain...maybe in favor of Tomorrow Never Knows" (but that will be the day)
The Lovin' Spoonful - Do You Believe in Magic
U2 - Moment of Surrender (clearly)


They got rid of Saddam. It is easier to get rid of Imagine.
Last edited by Fred on Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Hymie »

jdizzle83 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:39 pm If it’s all about sales then they’d just publish a list of best selling singles of all time.
It's not "all" about sales, but it's certainly "partially" about sales. No recording artist puts out a record and doesn't want it to sell a lot of copies.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

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I'll put this list up against the new Rolling Stone list any time.

https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_songsddd.html

Our list covers all eras and styles of rock well, without bias to our personal taste.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Live in Phoenix »

Hymie wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:07 pm I'll put this list up against the new Rolling Stone list any time.

https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_songsddd.html

Our list covers all eras and styles of rock well, without bias to our personal taste.
Oh, wow, looks like I was wise in my #1 and 9 guesses earlier :lol:
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Nick »

Hymie wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:31 pm
Rob wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:09 pm
Henry wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:16 pm I would deviate downward regarding Prince and Michael Jackson. But in this matter, I have more confidence in you guess work than mine :-)
I mostly doubt they would dare to give Jackson a top 10 position. He's still going to make the whole list and probably the top 100, but considering a lot of people at the moment get filled with pure hatred at the mere mention of Jackson's name I doubt that is something Rolling Stone would want to burn their fingers on. They also added something of a disclaimer to their write-up to Thriller last year.
"Billie Jean" was #58 last time. It's a great record, far bigger than "SLTS" in my experience both in managing a record store and in DJing in clubs and parties for over 20 years. I never once had a request for "SLTS" and I was DJing through 1995. My store sold bucketloads of "Billie Jean" both on 45 and 12 inch, and of course tons of the album. I can't even remember selling much Nirvana at all, and certainly not the single, and I managed the record shop until 1994.
According to this list, Nevermind is the 30th best selling album of all time, with 30 million copies sold worldwide. So I'd say your experience isn't indicative of the album's popularity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ing_albums
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Hymie »

Nick wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:52 pm According to this list, Nevermind is the 30th best selling album of all time, with 30 million copies sold worldwide. So I'd say your experience isn't indicative of the album's popularity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ing_albums
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ted_States

They have it as 10.7 million copies sold in the USA, about 4 million fewer copies than Hootie and the Blowfish - Cracked Rear View.

When you're gonna name a song or an album as the greatest of all time, to me, that should mean that the majority of music fans like the album, or song, as opposed to it having very strong appeal to a certain minority segment of music fans.

I would suggest that way more people under 35 like things like "My Girl" and "Billie Jean" and Hey Jude" and "Respect" than people over 55 who like "SLTS." There has to be a "dislike quotient" thrown into the equation too IMO. Not to mention the fact that "SLTS" is pretty much not popular at all with non whites around the world. So it's hugely popular with Caucasians under 50, but virtually nothing with anyone over 55, or anyone of any age who is not Caucasian.

I live in a very racially mixed area just a few blocks from a city (Newark, NJ) that is only 28% Caucasian, and over 50% Black. It's just not the type of area that is big on Nirvana.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Nick »

Hymie wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:47 pm
Nick wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:52 pm According to this list, Nevermind is the 30th best selling album of all time, with 30 million copies sold worldwide. So I'd say your experience isn't indicative of the album's popularity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ing_albums
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ted_States

They have it as 10.7 million copies sold in the USA, about 4 million fewer copies than Hootie and the Blowfish - Cracked Rear View.
This is actually kinda hilarious. You've almost got to feel bad for Hootie, having been such a big band and now are more or less an afterthought. Looking at the tracklist the only songs I can say I know are "Time" and "Only Wanna Be With You".
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Harold »

Nick wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:08 am
Hymie wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:47 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ted_States

They have it as 10.7 million copies sold in the USA, about 4 million fewer copies than Hootie and the Blowfish - Cracked Rear View.
This is actually kinda hilarious. You've almost got to feel bad for Hootie, having been such a big band and now are more or less an afterthought. Looking at the tracklist the only songs I can say I know are "Time" and "Only Wanna Be With You".
At least Darius Rucker managed to reinvent himself and is having a productive second career as a country singer (although he's been quite outspoken about his success being somewhat limited by lingering racism in that part of the industry). For years I thought people would only half-remember him as the inspiration for a gag in Jerry Maguire (Cuba Gooding Jr.'s Rod Tidwell being approached by an eager autograph-seeker while wearing a baseball cap, only to humiliatingly have to tell the kid, "No, I am not Hootie!").
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Mason »

Here’s my very, VERY rough prediction as to what the top 10 might look like:

1 | Aretha Franklin | Respect | 1967
2 | Bob Dylan | Like a Rolling Stone | 1965
3 | Marvin Gaye | What’s Going On | 1971
4 | Nirvana | Smells Like Teen Spirit | 1991
5 | Johnny B Goode | Chuck Berry | 1958
6 | The Beach Boys | Good Vibrations | 1966
7 | Sam Cooke | A Change is Gonna Come | 1958
8 | Michael Jackson | Billie Jean | 1982
9 | The Ronettes | Be My Baby | 1963
10 | Prince | When Doves Cry | 1984


Some more general predictions
  • "Paper Planes" will be the top song of the 2000s
  • I’m leaning towards "Alright" being the top song of the 2010s, but “Dancing On My Own” could be as well (possibly even "Formation", but I doubt that).
  • "Imagine" will take a dive, likely out of the top 40 or so. I can definitely see voters being mixed about the song, with some showing appreciation for its themes but others being more cynical about them.
  • "A Day in the Life" will be the highest-rated Beatles song, and it’ll probably be in the top 20.
  • "Gimme Shelter" will be the highest ranked Rolling Stones song, primarily due to its themes of war. While "Satisfaction" is good, I could see it not even being in the top 50; younger voters might not really care about its themes of commercialism, which are relevant but not very "political", at least compared to "Gimme Shelter's".
  • I can see a similar approach taken with "My Generation", but I can also see it remain somewhat high on the list, as its themes can be applied to today's society with the social justice movements over the last few years.
  • As shown above, I believe "Billie Jean" will be in the top 10 (or at the very least top 20), and I disagree with other forumers that it will take a tumble due to Jackson’s public perception. Thriller was pretty damn high in the album list, and I can see RS just briefly mentioning Jackson’s personal life like they did in Thriller’s album spot while still giving a high placement to “Billie Jean”.
  • While I wouldn’t be the biggest fan of it, I could see "WAP" being in the list, likely the only song from 2020.
  • "Bohemian Rhapsody" will be in the top 100 (it better be in the top 50!)
I’m looking forward to this list. The original song list (and its update) is what got me interested in these music lists, and therefore finding this site. I’m excited they’re making a new one.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Romain »

If I've been reading you correctly for 2 pages. This magazine, which I thought was totally despised by this forum for years, is going to make a Top 500 based not on the musical quality of the songs, but based on the gender, skin color, age and sales of the musicians ??????
Is it still interesting and worth talking about if it is really the case?
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by jdizzle83 »

Romain wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:08 am If I've been reading you correctly for 2 pages. This magazine, which I thought was totally despised by this forum for years, is going to make a Top 500 based not on the musical quality of the songs, but based on the gender, skin color, age and sales of the musicians ??????
Is it still interesting and worth talking about if it is really the case?
No, that’s not really accurate.

What is happening is that people who have traditionally been shut out of the voting process in a poll like this based on their gender, skin color, sexual orientation, etc. are now getting the opportunity to vote. In the past, the music press, along with many in the record industry, and also likely the types of artists asked, were mostly older white males. Especially the music press that worked for Rolling Stone. Now, voices of minorities are being amplified. Heck, they’re even asking people from more places around the world for ballots, if my understanding is correct. And since our cultural experiences often have an impact on the music we are exposed to, listen to, and enjoy, there will naturally be a change in what gets celebrated. Overall, it just means the list, which is one of the bigger all time polls and certainly the one that the average person is most going to come across (since most people don’t like searching up lists as much as users of this site do) will be more representative of people in general - including genres, race, and gender. It will still heavily represent a white male perspective I’m sure! But it will make room for others as well.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Nassim »

jdizzle83 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:45 pm
Live in Phoenix wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:25 pm I'm going to guess just to guess. Percentage error +/- 100%.

2021 Rolling Stone Top 10 songs:
1. Aretha Franklin - Respect
2. The Beatles - A Day in the Life (like when Rolling Stone threw out the band's top 10 albums from 2003 and substituted Abbey Road)
3. Marvin Gaye - What's Going On (maybe too much to give him all the #1 spots)
4. Nirvana - Smells Like Teen Spirit
5. Bob Dylan - Like a Rolling Stone
6. The Rolling Stones - Gimme Shelter (maybe they don't pull the trigger on this, but it beat "Satisfaction" in their 100 Greatest Rolling Stones Songs list)
7. Prince and the Revolution - When Doves Cry (a less older breed of music critic expects some '80s MJ or Prince on the list)
8. The Beach Boys - Good Vibrations (this or "Imagine," but maybe not both)
9. Michael Jackson - Billie Jean
10. Sam Cooke - A Change Is Gonna Come
I think this is a pretty strong guess. I think “Purple Rain” will now rate higher than “When Doves Cry” end I think “God Only Knows” will be higher than “Good Vibrations” so swap in those in my opinion
Exactly my opinion, swap those 2 songs in the top 10 and I think that's a very solid guess... I feel Johnny B Goode should be in there though
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

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Romain wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:08 am If I've been reading you correctly for 2 pages. This magazine, which I thought was totally despised by this forum for years, is going to make a Top 500 based not on the musical quality of the songs, but based on the gender, skin color, age and sales of the musicians ??????
I'd argue every list on this site has done this to some degree, even if it's not intentional, as every list writer will have some bias on what artists they include and promote.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Gillingham »

Hymie wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:59 pm
jdizzle83 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:39 pm If it’s all about sales then they’d just publish a list of best selling singles of all time.
It's not "all" about sales, but it's certainly "partially" about sales. No recording artist puts out a record and doesn't want it to sell a lot of copies.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Madzong »

I’m pretty sure any song by Hootie and the Blowfish won’t be in there :mrgreen:
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Hymie »

Romain wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:08 am If I've been reading you correctly for 2 pages. This magazine, which I thought was totally despised by this forum for years, is going to make a Top 500 based not on the musical quality of the songs, but based on the gender, skin color, age and sales of the musicians ??????
Is it still interesting and worth talking about if it is really the case?
It's not possible to base it on the "musical quality of the songs" as no 2 people will agree on what is quality music. That's a totally subjective thing. Although I don't agree at all, apparently most people also care a lot about what the lyrics are about, which has NOTHING to do with musical quality.

If they base the list strictly on the ballots submitted, it will be nothing more, nothing less, than a compilation of the favorite songs of the 300 or so voters.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by panam »

My Top 10 Predictions

1 | Nirvana | Smells Like Teen Spirit | 1991
2 | Bob Dylan | Like a Rolling Stone | 1965
3 | Marvin Gaye | What’s Going On | 1971
4 | Beyonce feat Jay-Z | Crazy In Love | 2003
5 | Michael Jackson | Billie Jean | 1982
6 | Aretha Franklin | Respect | 1967
7 | The Rolling Stones | (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction | 1965
8 | The Beatles | Hey Jude | 1969
9 | Kendrick Lamar | Alright | 2015
10 | The Beach Boys | Good Vibrations | 1966
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Honorio »

Hymie wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:22 pmIf they base the list strictly on the ballots submitted, it will be nothing more, nothing less, than a compilation of the favorite songs of the 300 or so voters.
Well, I agree. That's it. And probably all of them will be from North America or the UK...
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

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Honorio wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:30 pm
Hymie wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:22 pmIf they base the list strictly on the ballots submitted, it will be nothing more, nothing less, than a compilation of the favorite songs of the 300 or so voters.
Well, I agree. That's it. And probably all of them will be from North America or the UK...
Yes, and there's over 2 billion people in China and India who would not agree with hardly any of the 500 songs that will be on this list. I've sold albums to people in China a few times, and it's always been classical music. I don't think I've ever sold anything to anyone in India.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by jdizzle83 »

Hymie wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:54 pm
Honorio wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:30 pm
Hymie wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:22 pmIf they base the list strictly on the ballots submitted, it will be nothing more, nothing less, than a compilation of the favorite songs of the 300 or so voters.
Well, I agree. That's it. And probably all of them will be from North America or the UK...
Yes, and there's over 2 billion people in China and India who would not agree with hardly any of the 500 songs that will be on this list. I've sold albums to people in China a few times, and it's always been classical music. I don't think I've ever sold anything to anyone in India.
Yes. That’s true.

Do you all not like lists? Are you not actually into this site? I’m confused.

Obviously there is no objective way to list these songs. God himself is not making a universal declaration of the 500 greatest songs.

I guess I will steal from Ibram X Kendi who talks among a “collective subjectivity.” This list will be a pretty good representation of critical and musician collective subjectivity in the United States in 2021. That’s about it. Personally, I think that’s cool and exciting as it will probably be the list most people interested in a google search on best songs will find, and because of the range of people and voices being represented, and it’s probably going to solidify in the collective consciousness what the “best” songs are, and be more modern and inclusive then previous lists (and by modern I don’t just mean newer songs but solidifying those that have stood the test of time from the 50s, 60s, 70s, etc. LOTS of older songs will still be on the list!) Will it be flawed? Of course? Will it miss personal favorites? Yep. Will it have everything that we think should objectively be on it? Nope. Will it forever be the definitive list of best songs? Of course not: that will change with time. But it will be is an interesting snapshot of what’s considered the best at this moment by many experts.

It should be fun! I’m not sure why this has become such an argumentative debate rather than kind of a more relaxed and fun one.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Hymie »

jdizzle83 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:14 pm But it will be is an interesting snapshot of what’s considered the best at this moment by many experts.
I take issue with naming any of the voters as "experts." Being a music critic or a record industry executive in no way makes you any kind of "expert" on music. Most critics are journalism majors who know little about actual music as far as notes, chords, time, etc.. go. And as far record company people, my grandfather owned a successful record label (Savoy) and he did not know shit about music. He just knew which records sold and made him money. Strictly a businessman.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by jdizzle83 »

Hymie wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:19 pm
jdizzle83 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:14 pm But it will be is an interesting snapshot of what’s considered the best at this moment by many experts.
I take issue with naming any of the voters as "experts." Being a music critic or a record industry executive in no way makes you any kind of "expert" on music. Most critics are journalism majors who know little about actual music as far as notes, chords, time, etc.. go. And as far record company people, my grandfather owned a successful record label (Savoy) and he did not know shit about music. He just knew which records sold and made him money. Strictly a businessman.
Well, I guess we just disagree on what an expert is in a sense. I don’t think critics have to even know anything about musical theory. If it was all about theory than Joe Santriani would be considered the greatest guitarist ever. There’s more to it than that.

But that’s fine, you have your opinion, I disagree.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Nassim »

Hymie wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:19 pm
jdizzle83 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:14 pm But it will be is an interesting snapshot of what’s considered the best at this moment by many experts.
I take issue with naming any of the voters as "experts." Being a music critic or a record industry executive in no way makes you any kind of "expert" on music. Most critics are journalism majors who know little about actual music as far as notes, chords, time, etc.. go.
Yeah I disagree, you can be a great mechanic without having a PhD in physics and thermodynamics, you can be an expert on animals without knowing much about how cells or neurons work... music history and music theory are 2 different specialties.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Hymie »

Nassim wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:15 pm
Hymie wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:19 pm
jdizzle83 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:14 pm But it will be is an interesting snapshot of what’s considered the best at this moment by many experts.
I take issue with naming any of the voters as "experts." Being a music critic or a record industry executive in no way makes you any kind of "expert" on music. Most critics are journalism majors who know little about actual music as far as notes, chords, time, etc.. go.
Yeah I disagree, you can be a great mechanic without having a PhD in physics and thermodynamics, you can be an expert on animals without knowing much about how cells or neurons work... music history and music theory are 2 different specialties.
I agree, but what makes you think that any record industry execs or critics are experts on music history?

I would bet big money that me and several other members of this forum are bigger experts on music history than ANY of the people who will be voting on this new RS list. The Rock And Roll Hall of Fame paid me to proofread and fact check their website about 10 years ago. I think that makes me an acknowledged expert on music history.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by jdizzle83 »

Hymie wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:29 pm
Nassim wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:15 pm
Hymie wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:19 pm

I take issue with naming any of the voters as "experts." Being a music critic or a record industry executive in no way makes you any kind of "expert" on music. Most critics are journalism majors who know little about actual music as far as notes, chords, time, etc.. go.
Yeah I disagree, you can be a great mechanic without having a PhD in physics and thermodynamics, you can be an expert on animals without knowing much about how cells or neurons work... music history and music theory are 2 different specialties.
I agree, but what makes you think that any record industry execs or critics are experts on music history?

I would bet big money that me and several other members of this forum are bigger experts on music history than ANY of the people who will be voting on this new RS list. The Rock And Roll Hall of Fame paid me to proofread and fact check their website about 10 years ago. I think that makes me an acknowledged expert on music history.
Okay, dude.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

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Hymie wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:22 pm
Romain wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:08 am If I've been reading you correctly for 2 pages. This magazine, which I thought was totally despised by this forum for years, is going to make a Top 500 based not on the musical quality of the songs, but based on the gender, skin color, age and sales of the musicians ??????
Is it still interesting and worth talking about if it is really the case?
It's not possible to base it on the "musical quality of the songs" as no 2 people will agree on what is quality music. That's a totally subjective thing. Although I don't agree at all, apparently most people also care a lot about what the lyrics are about, which has NOTHING to do with musical quality.

If they base the list strictly on the ballots submitted, it will be nothing more, nothing less, than a compilation of the favorite songs of the 300 or so voters.
My two cents:
Subjectivity is fine. AM as well as staff-collaborated magazine lists are (or should be) aggregated subjectivity.
Yes, lyrics and music are different things, but they are the two elements that make a non-instrumental SONG.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

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jdizzle83 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:32 am
Romain wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:08 am If I've been reading you correctly for 2 pages. This magazine, which I thought was totally despised by this forum for years, is going to make a Top 500 based not on the musical quality of the songs, but based on the gender, skin color, age and sales of the musicians ??????
Is it still interesting and worth talking about if it is really the case?
No, that’s not really accurate.

What is happening is that people who have traditionally been shut out of the voting process in a poll like this based on their gender, skin color, sexual orientation, etc. are now getting the opportunity to vote. In the past, the music press, along with many in the record industry, and also likely the types of artists asked, were mostly older white males. Especially the music press that worked for Rolling Stone. Now, voices of minorities are being amplified. Heck, they’re even asking people from more places around the world for ballots, if my understanding is correct. And since our cultural experiences often have an impact on the music we are exposed to, listen to, and enjoy, there will naturally be a change in what gets celebrated. Overall, it just means the list, which is one of the bigger all time polls and certainly the one that the average person is most going to come across (since most people don’t like searching up lists as much as users of this site do) will be more representative of people in general - including genres, race, and gender. It will still heavily represent a white male perspective I’m sure! But it will make room for others as well.
Well said!
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

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I'd like to see an all time list done with just female voters. When I was in high school I surveyed the entire school for each person's 3 favorite artists and 3 favorite songs. This was 1973. The favorite overall artist was Led Zep and "Stairway To Heaven" was the top song. For the girls only the favorite artist was Elton John and the favorite song was "Colour My World" by Chicago, which is not listed on the site here at all.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by jdizzle83 »

kay, after giving it some thought, here are some more serious predictions. I'll rank the top 10 and then just throw some ideas out there about the rest.

Top 10

1. "God Only Knows"- Beach Boys (no evidence for this beyond a feeling!)
2. "Respect" - Aretha Franklin (been thinking this might actually be number one though)
3. "What's Going On" - Marvin Gaye
4. "Like a Rolling Stone" - Bob Dylan
5. "Smells Like Teen Spirit" - Nirvana
6. "A Day in the Life" - Beatles (but...maybe "Hey Jude" instead?)
7. "Billie Jean" - Michael Jackson
8. "Be My Baby" - Ronettes
9. "Fight the Power" - Public Enemy
10. "Purple Rain" - Prince

I was thinking "A Change Is Going to Come" might be a contender for the top 10 too - at one point maybe even for number one...we'll see. Definitely top 20.

In terms of highest charting 21st century songs, I think we'll see "Crazy In Love" and "Hey Ya" crack the top 20. I think "Paper Planes" and "Seven Nation Army" might crack top 50 (at least top 100). I don't know how much of the 2010s we'll see in the top 100. I know that the albums list had 7 albums from the 2010s in the top 100 (not all of which I personally agreed with. I really really like Drake, but "Take Care" a top 100 album?)

I think in the top 100 there will be a lot more hip hop. I've already said a few, but I think the hip hop songs in the top 100 will be (in no particular order - and excluding "Hey Ya" since it's not really a hip hop song even though it's by a hip-hop artist):

"Fight the Power" - Public Enemy
"Nothing But a G Thing" - Dr. Dre
""Juicy" - Notorious BIG
"CREAM" - Wu-Tang Clan
"Alright" - Kendrick Lamar
"Runaway" -Kanye West
"Ms. Jackson" - OutKast
"B.O.B" - Outkast (maybe three songs in the top 100 is too much...maybe not...I expect to see those three songs in at least the top 200)
"The Message" - Grandmaster Flash
"Straight Outta Compton" - NWA
"Shock Ones (Part II)" - Mobb Deep (maybe? or too niche?)
"99 Problems" -Jay-Z (maybe? or has this song lost its luster?)
"New York State of Mind" - Nas (again...maybe)

Might be too many, might be missing something, but I think representation of rap will change this list in a big way.

Adding onto some of the rap songs, I think from the 2010s we might see Robyn's "Dancing on My Own," Beyonce's "Formation," and maybe Lana Del Rey's "Video Games?" Or given the mainstream polling Taylor Swift's "All Too Well."

Anyway, just some stray thoughts.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Hymie »

jdizzle83 wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:52 am
Top 10

10. "Purple Rain" - Prince
I am wondering why several of you think that this will pass by "When Doves Cry" and be the highest ranking Prince record. It was only like #153 last time. I never liked this one much. It's monotonous and boring IMO, but I do like "When Doves Cry" a lot. They both rank on this site about the same as they did on the older RS list, #31 and #168.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by jdizzle83 »

Hymie wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:46 am
jdizzle83 wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:52 am
Top 10

10. "Purple Rain" - Prince
I am wondering why several of you think that this will pass by "When Doves Cry" and be the highest ranking Prince record. It was only like #153 last time. I never liked this one much. It's monotonous and boring IMO, but I do like "When Doves Cry" a lot. They both rank on this site about the same as they did on the older RS list, #31 and #168.
Mostly I think because it was number one on Pitchfork’s 80s list and I think it’s kind of surpassing “When Doves Cry” as his signature song but I admit I could be completely off with that one.
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by Hymie »

jdizzle83 wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:22 am
Hymie wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:46 am
jdizzle83 wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:52 am
Top 10

10. "Purple Rain" - Prince
I am wondering why several of you think that this will pass by "When Doves Cry" and be the highest ranking Prince record. It was only like #153 last time. I never liked this one much. It's monotonous and boring IMO, but I do like "When Doves Cry" a lot. They both rank on this site about the same as they did on the older RS list, #31 and #168.
Mostly I think because it was number one on Pitchfork’s 80s list and I think it’s kind of surpassing “When Doves Cry” as his signature song but I admit I could be completely off with that one.
Why does Pitchfork get more respect than this list, for example?

https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_songs80s.html
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Re: Predictions: Rolling Stone Top 500 Songs update 2021

Post by jdizzle83 »

Hymie wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:35 am
jdizzle83 wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:22 am
Hymie wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:46 am

I am wondering why several of you think that this will pass by "When Doves Cry" and be the highest ranking Prince record. It was only like #153 last time. I never liked this one much. It's monotonous and boring IMO, but I do like "When Doves Cry" a lot. They both rank on this site about the same as they did on the older RS list, #31 and #168.
Mostly I think because it was number one on Pitchfork’s 80s list and I think it’s kind of surpassing “When Doves Cry” as his signature song but I admit I could be completely off with that one.
Why does Pitchfork get more respect than this list, for example?

https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_songs80s.html
I don’t want to be rude, but that’s like asking why someone’s blog doesn’t get the same respect as the New York Times.
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