I'm having this discussion because, while I do get that there is a bar that separates absolute trash from good music, there seems to be this kind of mono directional porosity that, in the course of time, allows songs that received fairly positive contemporary reviews to be elevated to retrospective acclaim. I'm basing this on a variety of factors, the biggest one being 'Best of 2010s' lists by critics.
I most certainly did not expect to see songs like Teenage Dream (Katy Perry), Levels (Avicii), I Love It (Icona Pop ft. Charli XCX) peppered in the list among masterpieces like Royals (Lorde), Rolling In The Deep (Adele), and Monster (Kanye West ft. Justin Vernon, Rick Ross, JAY-Z, and Nicki Minaj). Even in the case of albums, Britney's Blackout received tepid reviews back in 2007, yet Rolling Stone called it the most influential album of the 2010s. I get art is subjective, but this change is across the board. While the songs mentioned above are good, I'm want to understand as to what about the song changed to elevate it. Is this nostalgia or is there something else that I'm missing out on?192.168.0.1 routerlogin 192.168.l.l
Discussion: What is acclaimed music?
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Discussion: What is acclaimed music?
Last edited by markhamil94 on Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Discussion: What is acclaimed music?
Reposting my reply from the first time you tried to get this discussion going back in February:markhamil94 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:04 am I'm having this discussion because, while I do get that there is a bar that separates absolute trash from good music, there seems to be this kind of mono directional porosity that, in the course of time, allows songs that received fairly positive contemporary reviews to be elevated to retrospective acclaim. I'm basing this on a variety of factors, the biggest one being 'Best of 2010s' lists by critics.
I most certainly did not expect to see songs like Teenage Dream (Katy Perry), Levels (Avicii), I Love It (Icona Pop ft. Charli XCX) peppered in the list among masterpieces like Royals (Lorde), Rolling In The Deep (Adele), and Monster (Kanye West ft. Justin Vernon, Rick Ross, JAY-Z, and Nicki Minaj). Even in the case of albums, Britney's Blackout received tepid reviews back in 2007, yet Rolling Stone called it the most influential album of the 2010s. I get art is subjective, but this change is across the board. While the songs mentioned above are good, I'm want to understand as to what about the song changed to elevate it. Is this nostalgia or is there something else that I'm missing out on?
One word, although it's a word I personally dislike - "poptimism." There has been a concerted effort over the last few years to critically re-evaluate songs and albums previously regarded (and, more often than not, dismissed) as lightweight, disposable pop music, and to take them just as seriously as more "artistically respectable" forms of rock and hip-hop. In many cases (including all of the examples you note above) these songs and albums are now retroactively canonized right alongside those you would normally expect to see.
Re: Discussion: What is acclaimed music?
One man's trash is another man's masterpiece. There's always gonna be a lot more people who love "Sugar, Sugar" by the Archies than those who love "Desolation Row" by Bob Dylan. Personally I much prefer "Sugar, Sugar" to that long boring Dylan song. It's the same thing with movies.
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Re: Discussion: What is acclaimed music?
People may hate on Twenty One Pilots and the new 1975 record but hey those artists are my shit. A lot of people seem to love bands like Red Hot Chilli Peppers and I just can't stand them.Hymie wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:21 pm One man's trash is another man's masterpiece. There's always gonna be a lot more people who love "Sugar, Sugar" by the Archies than those who love "Desolation Row" by Bob Dylan. Personally I much prefer "Sugar, Sugar" to that long boring Dylan song. It's the same thing with movies.
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Re: Discussion: What is acclaimed music?
I love Sugar Sugar too. There is some Bob Dylan I like but a agree - Desolation Row is now one of my favourite tracks of his.Hymie wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:21 pm One man's trash is another man's masterpiece. There's always gonna be a lot more people who love "Sugar, Sugar" by the Archies than those who love "Desolation Row" by Bob Dylan. Personally I much prefer "Sugar, Sugar" to that long boring Dylan song. It's the same thing with movies.
On another note Hymie there is an awesome series on Netflix about pop music with a whole episode devoted to the Brill Building. It’s called the ‘Brill Building in Four Songs’ and one of those songs (you’ve guessed it is ‘Sugar Sugar’. Great series BTW if you haven’t seen it
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Re: Discussion: What is acclaimed music?
There’s always going to be a difference between how an album is received when you’re immersed in the culture that created it and how it sounds when you’ve lived with it for years but have moved past its culture.
But this is going to be particularly the case for pop music. It’s very hard to tell which of the twenty pop albums which sound interchangeable and pandery at the time will actually have staying power.
But this is going to be particularly the case for pop music. It’s very hard to tell which of the twenty pop albums which sound interchangeable and pandery at the time will actually have staying power.
Re: Discussion: What is acclaimed music?
Not sure if you want to continue the debate but the only issue I have with poptimism is that pop has always had a financial advantage over most other contemporaneous genres.Harold wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:45 pm Reposting my reply from the first time you tried to get this discussion going back in February:
One word, although it's a word I personally dislike - "poptimism." There has been a concerted effort over the last few years to critically re-evaluate songs and albums previously regarded (and, more often than not, dismissed) as lightweight, disposable pop music, and to take them just as seriously as more "artistically respectable" forms of rock and hip-hop. In many cases (including all of the examples you note above) these songs and albums are now retroactively canonized right alongside those you would normally expect to see.
Positive critical assessment of the mainstream is fine and, in many cases, fair but it's increasingly a zero-sum game that most little-known artists (i.e. the vast majority of all creators of music) are losing.
Media outlets have seemingly been closing in record numbers this last year or so, especially those dedicated to music, and it makes more financial sense for the moribund music publications/websites to concentrate on an ever-smaller cadre of already popular acts in some hope of reversing their fortunes.
Bands have seen virtually no state support recently, not just a lack of a furlough for musicians during the global lockdowns, but ever since the 2008 recession when governments throughout the world have uniformly placed arts funding as the among the first forms of public investment to be culled. Major-label pop artists (not saying this includes everyone in pop) can weather this attack, most others in the industry (again, not all) can't.
Rockist snobbery shouldn't be applauded and loads of pop music should be but not at the expense of so much output from other genres, not to mention from other countries or other languages. Sorry this is all a bit trite from me, just wanted to get it off my chest.
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Re: Discussion: What is acclaimed music?
Ideally critical acclaim would be completely independent from popularity and wouldn't be influenced either way.
Critics being human, they can't detach themselves from their financial incentives and biases.
Critics being human, they can't detach themselves from their financial incentives and biases.
Re: Discussion: What is acclaimed music?
As technology evolves, it's heartening to see classroom 6x enthusiasts coming together to ensure that the classics remain relevant and enjoyable for years to come.