Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Jirin
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3350
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:12 am

Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Jirin »

I was listening to Tommy earlier this week and was struck by the fact at the end Tommy hires Uncle Ernie for his holiday camp.

I know it’s supposed to be a religious forgiveness kind of thing. But in retrospect, he is putting a guy with a history of child molestation in charge of children.

There’s also a ton of songs which a level of misogyny that was normalized in their era but with modern ears come off as terrible, like the Stones Stupid Girl and Under My Thumb. A song literally celebrating that the singer successfully crushed his girlfriend’s free will.

Of course the unfortunate Pretty Young Thing.

What’s some other songs which seemed worse looking back with modern eyes than they would have when they came out?
Henry
Into the Groove
Posts: 2349
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:39 pm

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Henry »

Stevie Wonder - Superwoman
Alice Cooper - Only Women Bleed
jamieW
Keep On Movin'
Posts: 1938
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:19 pm

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by jamieW »

"Into the Night" by Benny Mardones springs instantly to mind. ("She's just 16 years old, leave her alone, they say.") Though it was originally released in 1980, I first heard the song when it was re-released in 1989. I was 18 at the time and didn't think anything of it. I still love the song for the nostalgia, but I sure cringe at the lyrics now.
luvulongTIM
Different Class
Posts: 480
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:14 am
Location: Rowland Heights
Contact:

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by luvulongTIM »

Timothy by the Buoys
Harold
Into the Groove
Posts: 2331
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Harold »

luvulongTIM wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:34 am Timothy by the Buoys
I was only two years old when that song came out, but I can reasonably assure you that songs about cannibalism were not exactly the norm in 1971, either. Talk about a fluke hit single!

(For anyone who's never heard the song, "Timothy" is a jaunty pop-rock number about a mine cave-in that traps three men. Two come back, and the song - sung from the perspective of one of the survivors - is pretty unambiguous about the reason. "Timothy! Timothy! Where on earth did you go? Timothy! Timothy! God, why don't I know?" Fun fact: the song was written by Rupert Holmes, the "Pina Colada Song" guy.)
Harold
Into the Groove
Posts: 2331
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Harold »

Jirin wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:49 am There’s also a ton of songs which a level of misogyny that was normalized in their era but with modern ears come off as terrible, like the Stones Stupid Girl and Under My Thumb. A song literally celebrating that the singer successfully crushed his girlfriend’s free will.
You could do a whole thread just with Stones songs - how about "Stray Cat Blues," which is one of their most ferocious rock tracks but is also kind of uncomfortable to listen to, being an unabashed celebration of sex with underage groupies. (Not to mention "Brown Sugar," which they recently announced they won't be playing anymore.)
TheLastEnemy
Movin' On Up
Posts: 983
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:31 pm

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by TheLastEnemy »

First song I thought of was 'Young Girl' by Tab Hunter.
Presenter of 'The New Music Show' on www.welcomberadio.org.uk, Thursdays 6-8pm (UK time)
Listen later: https://www.mixcloud.com/chris-last/
User avatar
Live in Phoenix
Full of Fire
Posts: 2503
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:50 am

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Live in Phoenix »

I think Uncle Ernie was always supposed to be appalling, though. It's not like the camp turned out that well.

"I Got a Woman" by Ray Charles comes to mind. Released in 1954, so that explains a bit. Later covered on Elvis's first album, and of course later used by Kanye for "Gold Digger.' It has the lines, "She knows a woman's place / Is right there, now, in her home."

"Rehab" is Amy Winehouse's best song, though joking about rehab didn't age too well.

"Paint a Vulgar Picture" by the Smiths -- a 5-and-a-half minute complaint about repackaging music to death. According to Allmusic, it "has grown increasingly ironic in the wake of the Smiths' and Morrissey's love of repackaging the same material in new compilations."
User avatar
acroamor
Shake Some Action
Posts: 1490
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:16 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by acroamor »

"Punks Jump Up to Get Beat Down" has a very nice hook and beat but also these lines:

"Though I can freak, fly, flow, fuck up a f****t
Don't understand their ways, I ain't down with gays"
User avatar
ordinaryperson
Movin' On Up
Posts: 931
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:23 am

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by ordinaryperson »

Beastie Boys' "Hold It Now, Hit It": "You like men and we like beer."

Bob Dylan's "Hurricane", Elvis Costello's "Oliver's Army", and Dead Kennedy's "Holiday in Cambodia" (as well as some certain Patti Smith and Yoko Ono songs.)

Nirvana's "Come As You Are": "I swear that I don't have a gun."
There is No More Firmament.
User avatar
Live in Phoenix
Full of Fire
Posts: 2503
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:50 am

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Live in Phoenix »

"Wart Hog" by the Ramones, from 1984's Too Tough to Die, considered by some to be their last great album. Sung by Dee Dee,
Joey declined its appearance on the album, but Johnny lobbied for it. "I shot some dope, I feel so sick / It's a sick world, sick, sick, sick / Drugs and bitches and junkies and fags / Artificial phonies I hate it, hate it." (A sort of parallel line at the end puts it, "Drugs and bitches and commies and queers." In Johnny's book, he said something like, Well who's gonna be offended, the commies and the queers, right?)
User avatar
Holden
Never Going Back Again
Posts: 3781
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:06 pm

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Holden »

ordinaryperson wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:12 pm Beastie Boys' "Hold It Now, Hit It": "You like men and we like beer."

Bob Dylan's "Hurricane", Elvis Costello's "Oliver's Army", and Dead Kennedy's "Holiday in Cambodia" (as well as some certain Patti Smith and Yoko Ono songs.)

Nirvana's "Come As You Are": "I swear that I don't have a gun."
I mean at least “Hurricane” was socially on the right side, even if not in the lyrics.
"The better a singer's voice, the harder it is to believe what they're saying."
User avatar
Rob
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 7350
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:53 pm
Location: Nijmegen, The Netherlands

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Rob »

Holden wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:23 pm
ordinaryperson wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:12 pm Beastie Boys' "Hold It Now, Hit It": "You like men and we like beer."

Bob Dylan's "Hurricane", Elvis Costello's "Oliver's Army", and Dead Kennedy's "Holiday in Cambodia" (as well as some certain Patti Smith and Yoko Ono songs.)

Nirvana's "Come As You Are": "I swear that I don't have a gun."
I mean at least “Hurricane” was socially on the right side, even if not in the lyrics.
All those three songs are socially on point. Is it just the use of the N-word, regardless of its context use?
User avatar
ordinaryperson
Movin' On Up
Posts: 931
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:23 am

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by ordinaryperson »

Rob wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:45 pm
Holden wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:23 pm
ordinaryperson wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:12 pm Bob Dylan's "Hurricane", Elvis Costello's "Oliver's Army", and Dead Kennedy's "Holiday in Cambodia" (as well as some certain Patti Smith and Yoko Ono songs.)
I mean at least “Hurricane” was socially on the right side, even if not in the lyrics.
All those three songs are socially on point. Is it just the use of the N-word, regardless of its context use?
Yeah, I mainly chose those three song because they had white people saying the N-word in it's lyrics; imagine any of these people trying to get away with something like that today without major controversy. I do understand that the use of the N-word in those songs make perfect sense in their context. Though I'm a little mixed on the Elvis Costello song, as he had called both Ray Charles and James Brown the N-word in the same year "Oliver's Army" was released.
There is No More Firmament.
Harold
Into the Groove
Posts: 2331
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Harold »

ordinaryperson wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:10 pm Though I'm a little mixed on the Elvis Costello song, as he had called both Ray Charles and James Brown the N-word in the same year "Oliver's Army" was released.
While extremely drunk, and being prodded and provoked by Stephen Stills, one of rock's great assholes. Not defending EC's words, just contextualizing.

Kind of surprising that, given the current climate of dredging up every offensive thing every celebrity has ever done, that 1979 barroom incident hasn't been brought up more. (Same with the Ted Danson Friar's Club thing.)
Harold
Into the Groove
Posts: 2331
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Harold »

Speaking of offensive words, when was the last time you heard the full, unedited version of "Money for Nothing" on the radio? My local stations cut out The Verse In Question entirely. Anyone know whether Knopfler still plays it live?

I would be remiss if I didn't also add to this thread that it's almost the holidays, which means that it's almost time for the annual "Fairytale of New York" debate.
User avatar
Listyguy
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:34 pm

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Listyguy »

Harold wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:15 pm Speaking of offensive words, when was the last time you heard the full, unedited version of "Money for Nothing" on the radio? My local stations cut out The Verse In Question entirely. Anyone know whether Knopfler still plays it live?
Good call on "Money For Nothing," I heard it recently on the radio and was kind of surprised they had that verse in there. Can't remember if it was FM or Sirius.
User avatar
StevieFan13
Wuthering Heights
Posts: 6967
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:00 pm
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by StevieFan13 »

I’ve found Fairytale of New York and I Saw Her Standing There are still chill if you change a few words:
“You scumbag, you maggot/You look like Bob Saget”
And
“Well, WE were just seventeen…”
Music is a world within itself, with a language we all understand - Sir Duke (1976)
User avatar
StevieFan13
Wuthering Heights
Posts: 6967
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:00 pm
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by StevieFan13 »

There’s obviously It’s a Man’s Man’s Man’s World
Music is a world within itself, with a language we all understand - Sir Duke (1976)
User avatar
acroamor
Shake Some Action
Posts: 1490
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:16 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by acroamor »

ordinaryperson wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:10 pm
Rob wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:45 pm
Holden wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:23 pm

I mean at least “Hurricane” was socially on the right side, even if not in the lyrics.
All those three songs are socially on point. Is it just the use of the N-word, regardless of its context use?
Yeah, I mainly chose those three song because they had white people saying the N-word in it's lyrics; imagine any of these people trying to get away with something like that today without major controversy. I do understand that the use of the N-word in those songs make perfect sense in their context. Though I'm a little mixed on the Elvis Costello song, as he had called both Ray Charles and James Brown the N-word in the same year "Oliver's Army" was released.
Green Day had a song use the N-word in 2009 and it didn't attract much controversy at the time, but that may be due more to late Green Day's cultural irrelevancy than the actual social mores of the time.
User avatar
ordinaryperson
Movin' On Up
Posts: 931
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:23 am

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by ordinaryperson »

Harold wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:06 pm
ordinaryperson wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:10 pm Though I'm a little mixed on the Elvis Costello song, as he had called both Ray Charles and James Brown the N-word in the same year "Oliver's Army" was released.
Kind of surprising that, given the current climate of dredging up every offensive thing every celebrity has ever done, that 1979 barroom incident hasn't been brought up more. (Same with the Ted Danson Friar's Club thing.)
I'd add The Cure's "Why Can't I Be You" music video onto that list too.
acroamor wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:07 pm Green Day had a song use the N-word in 2009 and it didn't attract much controversy at the time, but that may be due more to late Green Day's cultural irrelevancy than the actual social mores of the time.
I think you could still get away with that in 2009 without any controversy given the context of the N-word in the song. 2014 and onwards is where they'd get canceled for it.
Last edited by ordinaryperson on Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:54 pm, edited 4 times in total.
There is No More Firmament.
Harold
Into the Groove
Posts: 2331
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Harold »

StevieFan13 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:54 pm I’ve found Fairytale of New York and I Saw Her Standing There are still chill if you change a few words:
“You scumbag, you maggot/You look like Bob Saget”
"I hear Bob Saget got his own jet airplane, I hear Bob Saget, he's a milli-on-aire!"

Of course, if we started using "Bob Saget" as a replacement word, soon enough it would probably just get co-opted as a coded slur in and of itself, like what's going on now (in a different context) with that idiotic "Let's go Brandon" bullshit.
Nassim
Full of Fire
Posts: 2793
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:35 pm
Location: Lille (France)

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Nassim »

Anyone heard about Ling Ting Tong ?

Jokes aside, I'd take Patti Smith Rock'n Roll Nigger out of the discussion on the N word, she uses it as a badge of pride, something you should revel in.
Harold
Into the Groove
Posts: 2331
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Harold »

Nassim wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:31 pm Jokes aside, I'd take Patti Smith Rock'n Roll Nigger out of the discussion on the N word, she uses it as a badge of pride, something you should revel in.
It doesn't matter what her intent was. She's a white person using the word. It's no longer defensible as "cool," and it really wasn't then, either. I love Patti, and it's not like I'm going to skip the track when I listen to Easter, but it's still cringe-worthy.
Harold
Into the Groove
Posts: 2331
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Harold »

One of my favorite albums of the 2010s is John Grant's Queen of Denmark (2010), which contains a song titled "Jesus Hates Faggots."

If you know Grant, and the album, you know that he's a bluntly outspoken, openly gay man, and that the song is angrily directed at the bizarre, fucked-up quasi-religious ideas that his father tried to instill in him when he was a kid. In addition to the slur in the title, the lyrics contain a laundry list of other bigoted terms, including the N-word (mixed in with absurdist statements of hatred toward other things, like kangaroos and three-bean salad, to emphasize how utterly stupid all prejudices are).

The intent of the song couldn't possibly be any clearer, but I always find myself wondering whether Grant would include it (or alter it) if he was making the album today. Of course, Grant's such an ornery cuss that he might just leave it unchanged anyway, but I do wonder.
Henry
Into the Groove
Posts: 2349
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:39 pm

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Henry »

Harold wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:51 pm One of my favorite albums of the 2010s is John Grant's Queen of Denmark (2010), which contains a song titled "Jesus Hates Faggots."

If you know Grant, and the album, you know that he's a bluntly outspoken, openly gay man, and that the song is angrily directed at the bizarre, fucked-up quasi-religious ideas that his father tried to instill in him when he was a kid. In addition to the slur in the title, the lyrics contain a laundry list of other bigoted terms, including the N-word (mixed in with absurdist statements of hatred toward other things, like kangaroos and three-bean salad, to emphasize how utterly stupid all prejudices are).

The intent of the song couldn't possibly be any clearer, but I always find myself wondering whether Grant would include it (or alter it) if he was making the album today. Of course, Grant's such an ornery cuss that he might just leave it unchanged anyway, but I do wonder.
I enjoy Grant's GMF song
Nick
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3115
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:28 pm
Location: New York State

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Nick »

All of these songs can’t compare to A Tribe Called Quest’s “Georgie Porgie”, a song so incredibly homophobic that the record executives for the band demanded it was pulled from their masterpiece album The Low End Theory.

Here’s the opening verse:

“ In the beginning, there was Adam and Eve
But some try to make it look like Adam and Steve
Like Georgie, why can't money find a honey
I couldn't believe when I found out he was funny
You know fierce with just his right ear pierced
I couldn't hack it, I knew this brother for years
Walking in the ville with them long dreadlocks
But on the DL, getting done up the butt box
Oh my God how gross can one be
Well anyway, better him than me
Used to be down with the crew and had the girls that were def
Instead of staying to the right, he fell off to the left
So Lord J being that you go next
Pull the rest of his card cause I'm vexed”

Maybe this violates the spirit of the thread because the song was already regarded as in poor taste back in (the much more homophobic world of) 1991. But these days it would be unthinkable for a mainstream rap group to even consider putting something this hate filled out.
User avatar
Holden
Never Going Back Again
Posts: 3781
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:06 pm

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Holden »

Nick wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:35 pm All of these songs can’t compare to A Tribe Called Quest’s “Georgie Porgie”, a song so incredibly homophobic that the record executives for the band demanded it was pulled from their masterpiece album The Low End Theory.

Here’s the opening verse:

“ In the beginning, there was Adam and Eve
But some try to make it look like Adam and Steve
Like Georgie, why can't money find a honey
I couldn't believe when I found out he was funny
You know fierce with just his right ear pierced
I couldn't hack it, I knew this brother for years
Walking in the ville with them long dreadlocks
But on the DL, getting done up the butt box
Oh my God how gross can one be
Well anyway, better him than me
Used to be down with the crew and had the girls that were def
Instead of staying to the right, he fell off to the left
So Lord J being that you go next
Pull the rest of his card cause I'm vexed”

Maybe this violates the spirit of the thread because the song was already regarded as in poor taste back in (the much more homophobic world of) 1991. But these days it would be unthinkable for a mainstream rap group to even consider putting something this hate filled out.
Yeah this is just disgusting. They’ve since had at least one song I know of (We the People) where they show support for LGBT+ people but what a disgusting song. Thank goodness it never got released and ruined that album.
"The better a singer's voice, the harder it is to believe what they're saying."
User avatar
Edre Depeche Head
Movin' On Up
Posts: 866
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Edre Depeche Head »

I do not want to get too pulled into this threat but critisizing Dead Kennedys, Green Day, Patti Smith, and whoever else for saying the n-word in music and making them out like they are promoting racism without taking into consideration is one of the dumbest most assinine and bone-headed thing someone can do. Context matters more than anything else. SMH
Edre the Depeche Head
Harold
Into the Groove
Posts: 2331
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Harold »

Edre Peraza wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:19 am I do not want to get too pulled into this threat but critisizing Dead Kennedys, Green Day, Patti Smith, and whoever else for saying the n-word in music and making them out like they are promoting racism without taking into consideration is one of the dumbest most assinine and bone-headed thing someone can do. Context matters more than anything else. SMH
I don't believe anyone is arguing that they're promoting racism; if someone was saying that, I agree it would be asinine and boneheaded, but since no one here's actually doing that you're kind of swinging at a straw-man pinata. It's simply that the word itself is so offensive, so loaded with baggage, that white people shouldn't be using it in songs, period. Especially if they're using it to compare marginalized groups to each other (like Lennon) or as shorthand to ham-handedly characterize outsiders (like Smith).
User avatar
Holden
Never Going Back Again
Posts: 3781
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:06 pm

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Holden »

I feel like criticism is certainly reasonable. I don’t hate them for it. It was a mistake, but I don’t think they should’ve used the word, and I’m not scared to say that they shouldn’t have. I don’t think they were promoting racism but they aren’t above criticism because of that.
"The better a singer's voice, the harder it is to believe what they're saying."
User avatar
StevieFan13
Wuthering Heights
Posts: 6967
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:00 pm
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by StevieFan13 »

Nick wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:35 pm All of these songs can’t compare to A Tribe Called Quest’s “Georgie Porgie”, a song so incredibly homophobic that the record executives for the band demanded it was pulled from their masterpiece album The Low End Theory.

Here’s the opening verse:

“ In the beginning, there was Adam and Eve
But some try to make it look like Adam and Steve
Like Georgie, why can't money find a honey
I couldn't believe when I found out he was funny
You know fierce with just his right ear pierced
I couldn't hack it, I knew this brother for years
Walking in the ville with them long dreadlocks
But on the DL, getting done up the butt box
Oh my God how gross can one be
Well anyway, better him than me
Used to be down with the crew and had the girls that were def
Instead of staying to the right, he fell off to the left
So Lord J being that you go next
Pull the rest of his card cause I'm vexed”

Maybe this violates the spirit of the thread because the song was already regarded as in poor taste back in (the much more homophobic world of) 1991. But these days it would be unthinkable for a mainstream rap group to even consider putting something this hate filled out.
It's just so weird to see Tribe, of all groups, saying such vile shit. They were so chill and all about spreading good vibes, and here they are with this horrible homophobic stuff. Thank God someone talked sense into them. Tells you how pervasive those attitudes can be, especially in the early '90s.
Music is a world within itself, with a language we all understand - Sir Duke (1976)
Harold
Into the Groove
Posts: 2331
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Harold »

StevieFan13 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:08 am It's just so weird to see Tribe, of all groups, saying such vile shit. They were so chill and all about spreading good vibes, and here they are with this horrible homophobic stuff. Thank God someone talked sense into them. Tells you how pervasive those attitudes can be, especially in the early '90s.
Public Enemy's Fear of a Black Planet has the equally horrible "Meet the G That Killed Me" ("Man to man, I don't know if they can / From what I know, the parts don't fit-Ah, shit!"), which also launches into tinfoil-hat "the-government-created-AIDS" conspiracy-theory territory. Pretty impressive for a track that only lasts 45 seconds. At least it's short.
Jirin
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3350
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:12 am

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Jirin »

I see stuff like Hurricane as the knee-jerk sort of offense, automatic reactions without considering context. I put those in a different category as ones whose meaning is racist or misogynistic. Same with Brown Sugar, the song is in no way defending the actions of the narrator.
User avatar
StevieFan13
Wuthering Heights
Posts: 6967
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:00 pm
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by StevieFan13 »

Harold wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:12 pm
StevieFan13 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:08 am It's just so weird to see Tribe, of all groups, saying such vile shit. They were so chill and all about spreading good vibes, and here they are with this horrible homophobic stuff. Thank God someone talked sense into them. Tells you how pervasive those attitudes can be, especially in the early '90s.
Public Enemy's Fear of a Black Planet has the equally horrible "Meet the G That Killed Me" ("Man to man, I don't know if they can / From what I know, the parts don't fit-Ah, shit!"), which also launches into tinfoil-hat "the-government-created-AIDS" conspiracy-theory territory. Pretty impressive for a track that only lasts 45 seconds. At least it's short.
That same album has "Welcome to the Terrordome" with its anti-Semitic talk.
Music is a world within itself, with a language we all understand - Sir Duke (1976)
hero
Strange Fruit
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:01 am

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by hero »

What about Simple Man with Charlie Daniels Band?

I think of all the songs about really young girls as well. Only Sixteen for example. Just think if R.Kelly would have done a song like that :)
User avatar
Edre Depeche Head
Movin' On Up
Posts: 866
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Edre Depeche Head »

Jirin wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:58 pm I see stuff like Hurricane as the knee-jerk sort of offense, automatic reactions without considering context. I put those in a different category as ones whose meaning is racist or misogynistic. Same with Brown Sugar, the song is in no way defending the actions of the narrator.
I agree on this point
Edre the Depeche Head
Harold
Into the Groove
Posts: 2331
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Harold »

Edre Peraza wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:54 pm
Jirin wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:58 pm I see stuff like Hurricane as the knee-jerk sort of offense, automatic reactions without considering context. I put those in a different category as ones whose meaning is racist or misogynistic. Same with Brown Sugar, the song is in no way defending the actions of the narrator.
I agree on this point
Definitely agree on "Hurricane," not really so much on "Brown Sugar" (I don't think the song is racist, but it's not exactly Randy Newman-level role-playing satire either).

Something like "Money for Nothing" is a little more complicated. Knopfler is clearly playing a character - the working-class yobbo ranting about MTV and the easy life while lugging around his fridges and color TVs - so yes, he can distance himself and say that the views expressed with regard to The Little You-Know-What are the character's and not his own. But it's not a stretch to think that he wants his audience to laugh at both the yobbo AND The Little You-Know-What. So the context goes both ways there.
User avatar
Edre Depeche Head
Movin' On Up
Posts: 866
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Edre Depeche Head »

Harold wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:47 pm
Edre Peraza wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:54 pm
Jirin wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:58 pm I see stuff like Hurricane as the knee-jerk sort of offense, automatic reactions without considering context. I put those in a different category as ones whose meaning is racist or misogynistic. Same with Brown Sugar, the song is in no way defending the actions of the narrator.
I agree on this point
Definitely agree on "Hurricane," not really so much on "Brown Sugar" (I don't think the song is racist, but it's not exactly Randy Newman-level role-playing satire either).

Something like "Money for Nothing" is a little more complicated. Knopfler is clearly playing a character - the working-class yobbo ranting about MTV and the easy life while lugging around his fridges and color TVs - so yes, he can distance himself and say that the views expressed with regard to The Little You-Know-What are the character's and not his own. But it's not a stretch to think that he wants his audience to laugh at both the yobbo AND The Little You-Know-What. So the context goes both ways there.
Yeah that is a pretty good point. To me it does matter the role of the narrator in the song.
Edre the Depeche Head
TheLastEnemy
Movin' On Up
Posts: 983
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:31 pm

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by TheLastEnemy »

Was just reminded of the song 'Thank Heaven for Little Girls' by Maurice Chevalier. Hmmmm...
Presenter of 'The New Music Show' on www.welcomberadio.org.uk, Thursdays 6-8pm (UK time)
Listen later: https://www.mixcloud.com/chris-last/
Jirin
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3350
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:12 am

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Jirin »

Cases like Brown Sugar and Money For Nothing, it might be a good idea not to play the offensive parts at concerts just to keep them accessible, just as long as they don’t take it down from streaming services so you can still hear it whenever you want.

Dire Straits isn’t calling feminine looking rockers the F word, the movers are. And that’s how a lot of working class people talked in the 80s, and they’re essentially calling themselves the word to satirize other people’s perception of their lifestyle. It’s no different from a book that takes place in the 19th century having the N word. Eliminate it, you’re not eliminating the racism, you’re whitewashing it.

If you’re going to tell stories about bigoted periods in history, you need to be free to use bigoted language, as long as you’re not portraying it positively or nostalgically.
User avatar
BleuPanda
Higher Ground
Posts: 4717
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:20 am
Location: Urbana, IL

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by BleuPanda »

I remember doing "American Idiot" at karaoke once and my friends murmuring at the f-word drop. Which is funny to me, because Billie Joe Armstrong has publicly identified as bisexual in the past and thus should be afforded the ability to use that word, especially when the line is clearly reflecting on people trying to insult him.

Of course, the same album has 'Am I retarded or am I just overjoyed?' on "Jesus of Suburbia." It's a very mid-2000s album.
Nassim
Full of Fire
Posts: 2793
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:35 pm
Location: Lille (France)

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Nassim »

TheLastEnemy wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:31 pm Was just reminded of the song 'Thank Heaven for Little Girls' by Maurice Chevalier. Hmmmm...
Yeah, pedophilia is very pervasive in French art unfortunately, it has been glamorized and romanticized in movies, songs and literature a lot, even quite recently.
Even in interviews, guys like Claude François openly talked about sleeping only with young teens.
I'm not saying it doesn't exist elsewhere (songs like Motorhead's Jailbait are iffy) but in France it has been very open and accepted far too long.
User avatar
StevieFan13
Wuthering Heights
Posts: 6967
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:00 pm
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by StevieFan13 »

Jirin wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:11 pm Cases like Brown Sugar and Money For Nothing, it might be a good idea not to play the offensive parts at concerts just to keep them accessible, just as long as they don’t take it down from streaming services so you can still hear it whenever you want.

Dire Straits isn’t calling feminine looking rockers the F word, the movers are. And that’s how a lot of working class people talked in the 80s, and they’re essentially calling themselves the word to satirize other people’s perception of their lifestyle. It’s no different from a book that takes place in the 19th century having the N word. Eliminate it, you’re not eliminating the racism, you’re whitewashing it.

If you’re going to tell stories about bigoted periods in history, you need to be free to use bigoted language, as long as you’re not portraying it positively or nostalgically.
I feel like that one's even easier than Fairytale of New York because the word isn't use as part of a rhyme. "That little fella's got his own jet airplane/That little fella, he's a millionaire." Heck, if you wanted to keep the "working class yobbo" vibe and make it perhaps more New York-y, "That motherfucker's got his own jet airplane..." would work too.
Music is a world within itself, with a language we all understand - Sir Duke (1976)
User avatar
StevieFan13
Wuthering Heights
Posts: 6967
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:00 pm
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by StevieFan13 »

BleuPanda wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:12 pm I remember doing "American Idiot" at karaoke once and my friends murmuring at the f-word drop. Which is funny to me, because Billie Joe Armstrong has publicly identified as bisexual in the past and thus should be afforded the ability to use that word, especially when the line is clearly reflecting on people trying to insult him.

Of course, the same album has 'Am I retarded or am I just overjoyed?' on "Jesus of Suburbia." It's a very mid-2000s album.
It's a weird thing. I'm bi, like Billie Joe, and I'm on the autism spectrum, and the use of those words never bothered me within the song and I've never seen anyone call Green Day out on those lyrics. That being said, when I saw them live, I still didn't sing along to those words, even though ostensibly I'm "entitled" to. Just didn't feel quite right. Weird outlying example there.
Music is a world within itself, with a language we all understand - Sir Duke (1976)
User avatar
Live in Phoenix
Full of Fire
Posts: 2503
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:50 am

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Live in Phoenix »

Nassim wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:44 pm
TheLastEnemy wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:31 pm Was just reminded of the song 'Thank Heaven for Little Girls' by Maurice Chevalier. Hmmmm...
Yeah, pedophilia is very pervasive in French art unfortunately, it has been glamorized and romanticized in movies, songs and literature a lot, even quite recently.
Even in interviews, guys like Claude François openly talked about sleeping only with young teens.
I'm not saying it doesn't exist elsewhere (songs like Motorhead's Jailbait are iffy) but in France it has been very open and accepted far too long.
Oh yeah, I never saw the movie, but I used to have the Gigi soundtrack. Someone could ruthlessly use that song as background music for Ghislaine Maxwell's trial coverage.
Nick
Running Up That Hill
Posts: 3115
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:28 pm
Location: New York State

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Nick »

Nassim wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:44 pm
TheLastEnemy wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:31 pm Was just reminded of the song 'Thank Heaven for Little Girls' by Maurice Chevalier. Hmmmm...
Yeah, pedophilia is very pervasive in French art unfortunately, it has been glamorized and romanticized in movies, songs and literature a lot, even quite recently.
Even in interviews, guys like Claude François openly talked about sleeping only with young teens.
I'm not saying it doesn't exist elsewhere (songs like Motorhead's Jailbait are iffy) but in France it has been very open and accepted far too long.
Serge Gainsbourg (whose music I love) once recorded a duet with his 12 year old daughter called "Lemon Incest" in which the lyrics describe the mutual sexual attraction between a man and his daughter. The music video featured a shirtless Serge laying in bed with his daughter, who was wearing only a shirt and panties.

The single peaked at #2 on the French charts.
User avatar
Live in Phoenix
Full of Fire
Posts: 2503
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:50 am

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Live in Phoenix »

My '70s listening list includes Histoire de Melody Nelson, but I've heard it has some problems...
User avatar
Rob
Die Mensch Maschine
Posts: 7350
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:53 pm
Location: Nijmegen, The Netherlands

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Rob »

Live in Phoenix wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:13 am My '70s listening list includes Histoire de Melody Nelson, but I've heard it has some problems...
For what it's worth, provocation was always the point with Serge Gainsbourgh.
User avatar
Edre Depeche Head
Movin' On Up
Posts: 866
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Songs with lyrics that aged poorly

Post by Edre Depeche Head »

I just remembered one. Soooooo I have been a pretty big Travis Scott fan for a few years and even after the tragedy, albums like Astroworld are still personal favorites of mine. But there is one lyric that didn't age well.

Travis Scott - Stargazing "it ain't a mosh pit if theres no injuries, I got em' stagediving from the nosebleeds"
Edre the Depeche Head
Post Reply

Return to “Music, Music, Music...”