Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

Nassim
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Re: Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

Post by Nassim »

Hymie wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:34 pm
JohnMidgett1999 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:39 am Does anyone really treat Rock & Roll Hall of Fame seriously? They don't even consider the achievements or popularity like most people I believe would. Look at Judas Priest being nominated - how did they lose against Bon Jovi? Bon Jovi has few hits that people know, ok, but look at the lifespan of JP and their accomplishments - you simply can't beat them. I was very disappointed after hearing these results. I stopped caring for it like Oscars or Game Awards.
Bon Jovi was the top grossing touring band in the world for like 10 years in a row at one point.
Yeah, I'm not used to agreeing with Hymie, but if you consider popularity I don't see how Judas Priest would make more sense than Bon Jovi. Bon Jovi have sold 3 times more album, 4 #1 songs when Judas Priest charted only once in the Billboard top 100 and still managed to have an album get to #1 4 years ago, still fill huge venues and plain and simply won the fans ballot for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame with more than twice the votes Judas Priest got.
Achievements are more subjective but neither have a lot of awards (one improbably Grammy each) or feature that much on critics list. I'd argue Judas Priest has a more lasting influence, but only on a specific genre, and in any case we are leaving the more objective territories.
poorpete
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Re: Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

Post by poorpete »

I like awards and award shows, even with the obvious issues and biases and my kumbaya attitude that almost all art is worthy of celebration. I like anytime deserving or interesting artists are rewarded, the debate over what they got right and wrong, and analyzing an award's power and gatekeeping and their reflection of culture for better and worse.

With the Hall of Fame there's a lot to talk about :-)
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Henrik
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Re: Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

Post by Henrik »

No charts or sales can make Bon Jovi more worthy than Judas Priest. That’s just how it is. ;)
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Jackson
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Re: Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

Post by Jackson »

Henrik wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:33 pm No charts or sales can make Bon Jovi more worthy than Judas Priest. That’s just how it is. ;)
100% agree. I'm disappointed there isn't a critical acclaim case to make for Judas Priest - Bon Jovi is actually ranked a little higher on AM!

The best case for Judas Priest (and Iron Maiden, as I discussed upthread) is the incredible lack of metal bands in the Hall. There are only two: Black Sabbath and Metallica. That's an incredibly popular and influential genre of music that has been almost entirely ignored by the Hall. JP and IM needed to be in the Hall yesterday.
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Re: Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

Post by Jackson »

I just realized that OutKast is eligible for the Hall, yet wasn't among the nominees. This is one I can't figure out, especially with how many other rap legends have easily been inducted over the last 5-10 years. They are hugely critically acclaimed, won a ton of Grammys, crossed over to the mainstream in ways few hip hop artists ever have, and remain widely beloved in the rap community. Any theories as to why they weren't an easy first time eligible inductee?
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Re: Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

Post by Hymie »

Henrik wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:33 pm No charts or sales can make Bon Jovi more worthy than Judas Priest. That’s just how it is. ;)
Bon Jovi is even ranked higher here on the site. There are lots of acts where you can make a strong case for them deserving the HOF before Bon Jovi, but Priest just isn't one of them. Metal is a genre where there like 85% to 90% of the fans are male. Bon Jovi has tons of female fans.
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Re: Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

Post by Nick »

Jackson wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:49 pm I just realized that OutKast is eligible for the Hall, yet wasn't among the nominees. This is one I can't figure out, especially with how many other rap legends have easily been inducted over the last 5-10 years. They are hugely critically acclaimed, won a ton of Grammys, crossed over to the mainstream in ways few hip hop artists ever have, and remain widely beloved in the rap community. Any theories as to why they weren't an easy first time eligible inductee?
My only guess is that OutKast hit the sweet spot of “new enough to just become eligible for induction” and “haven’t done anything to keep themselves in the cultural conversation in recent years”. The last OutKast album was all the way back in 2006, and the last major release from them was in 2003. Big Boi is somewhat active with a solo career, but Andre 3000 has all but retired.

That being said, OutKast absolutely merit inclusion in the HOF.
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Re: Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

Post by stone37 »

Nick wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:42 pm
Jackson wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:49 pm I just realized that OutKast is eligible for the Hall, yet wasn't among the nominees. This is one I can't figure out, especially with how many other rap legends have easily been inducted over the last 5-10 years. They are hugely critically acclaimed, won a ton of Grammys, crossed over to the mainstream in ways few hip hop artists ever have, and remain widely beloved in the rap community. Any theories as to why they weren't an easy first time eligible inductee?
My only guess is that OutKast hit the sweet spot of “new enough to just become eligible for induction” and “haven’t done anything to keep themselves in the cultural conversation in recent years”. The last OutKast album was all the way back in 2006, and the last major release from them was in 2003. Big Boi is somewhat active with a solo career, but Andre 3000 has all but retired.

That being said, OutKast absolutely merit inclusion in the HOF.
I did not even realize they were eligible. Damn, I am old. But, yes, they should have been a first ballot induction.
poorpete
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Re: Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

Post by poorpete »

Only defense of no OutKast yet is the current hip hop nominees... LL, Mary, and Jay entered the public conscious prior. Hard Knock Life was 1998 and Ms Jackson was 2000, though I know each were making good stuff prior.

Maybe like sweeping out a decade, they need to sweep out the East Coast/ West Coast before they travel south?

My guess is they'll go next chronologically, with maybe Missy Elliot jumping ahead. Hopefully ahead of Eminem, but that's all personal preference. :-)
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bootsy
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Re: Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

Post by bootsy »

Nick wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:42 pm
Jackson wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:49 pm I just realized that OutKast is eligible for the Hall, yet wasn't among the nominees. This is one I can't figure out, especially with how many other rap legends have easily been inducted over the last 5-10 years. They are hugely critically acclaimed, won a ton of Grammys, crossed over to the mainstream in ways few hip hop artists ever have, and remain widely beloved in the rap community. Any theories as to why they weren't an easy first time eligible inductee?
My only guess is that OutKast hit the sweet spot of “new enough to just become eligible for induction” and “haven’t done anything to keep themselves in the cultural conversation in recent years”. The last OutKast album was all the way back in 2006, and the last major release from them was in 2003. Big Boi is somewhat active with a solo career, but Andre 3000 has all but retired.

That being said, OutKast absolutely merit inclusion in the HOF.
OutKast will get in they just have to do the 'wait your turn' nonsense.

I'm more frustrated at another year of no Kraftwerk and The Smiths.
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Re: Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

Post by stone37 »

bootsy wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:35 am
Nick wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:42 pm
Jackson wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:49 pm I just realized that OutKast is eligible for the Hall, yet wasn't among the nominees. This is one I can't figure out, especially with how many other rap legends have easily been inducted over the last 5-10 years. They are hugely critically acclaimed, won a ton of Grammys, crossed over to the mainstream in ways few hip hop artists ever have, and remain widely beloved in the rap community. Any theories as to why they weren't an easy first time eligible inductee?
My only guess is that OutKast hit the sweet spot of “new enough to just become eligible for induction” and “haven’t done anything to keep themselves in the cultural conversation in recent years”. The last OutKast album was all the way back in 2006, and the last major release from them was in 2003. Big Boi is somewhat active with a solo career, but Andre 3000 has all but retired.

That being said, OutKast absolutely merit inclusion in the HOF.
OutKast will get in they just have to do the 'wait your turn' nonsense.

I'm more frustrated at another year of no Kraftwerk and The Smiths.
I hear you Bootsy. Those two are glaring omissions. But I get why they are not in. The hall has certain tendencies. They undervalue everything after the 70s; they undervalue dance music; they undervalue artists who have influence and acclaim but limited sales (especially in the US); they undervalue the non-American (unless the non-Americans made a big splash in the US). So when I bemoan the absence of the Smiths, or Brian Eno, or New Order, or the Pet Shop Boys, I am bemoaning the tendencies of their voters. But OutKast is so completely in their wheelhouse. They were critical darlings. They were innovative. They sold lots of records. They won Grammys. They produced memorable singles and albums.
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Re: Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

Post by Hymie »

stone37 wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:08 am they undervalue artists who have influence and acclaim but limited sales
Not really. They inducted the Velvet Underground, the Stooges and the Ramones before mega selling acts like Chicago. I'd say that they undervalue commercial success in favor of critical acclaim and influence. For instance, big hit makers like Kool and the Gang and Boyz II Men have never been nominated but critical darlings like The Clash have been in for a long time.
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Re: Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

Post by stone37 »

Hymie wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:21 am
stone37 wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:08 am they undervalue artists who have influence and acclaim but limited sales
Not really. They inducted the Velvet Underground, the Stooges and the Ramones before mega selling acts like Chicago. I'd say that they undervalue commercial success in favor of critical acclaim and influence. For instance, big hit makers like Kool and the Gang and Boyz II Men have never been nominated but critical darlings like The Clash have been in for a long time.
There are some for sure. But the hall still lacks Big Star, Kraftwerk, Elliott Smith, Kate Bush, PJ Harvey, the Smiths, Brian Eno, Blur, New Order, etc. All acts who deserve to get in on merit and/or influence. But none of whom sold many records in the US.

In terms of Kool and Boyz, I might say that speaks to the hall's privileging of the 50s/60s/70s over the 80s/90s, but I am not sure. Neither band is "cool" or has mystique nor gets much love on "acclaimed music" style lists. I am not sure how many songs by Boyz had staying power. At least Kool had "Celebration" and "Jungle Boogie."
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Re: Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

Post by Hymie »

stone37 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:18 am There are some for sure. But the hall still lacks Big Star, Kraftwerk, Elliott Smith, Kate Bush, PJ Harvey, the Smiths, Brian Eno, Blur, New Order, etc. All acts who deserve to get in on merit and/or influence.
Big Star is a joke as a hall of fame candidate IMO. I've never even heard of Elliot Smith, whoever that is.
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Re: Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

Post by Nassim »

This year inductees :
Jay-Z
Foo Fighters
Tina Turner
The Go-Go's
Todd Rungren
Carole King

LL Cool J will get and "Award in Musical Influence" and so will Randy Rhoads and Billy Preston.
Kraftwerk, Gil-Scott Heron and Charley Patton are joining the "early influence" aisle.
Really looks like consolation prices for LL Cool J and Kraftwerk who seem to never be able to get in the Hall, kind of like what happened with Niles Rogers a few years back. Kraftwerk and Gil-Scott Heron really don't fit with the "early influence" inductees so far who were all pre 60s artists.

And Clarence Avant, founder of Sussex Records, is getting the Ahmet Ertegun Award.
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Re: Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

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That is about as bland as the inductees could have been out of the finalists. No Kate Bush, Fela Kuti, Iron Maiden, etc.

Todd Rundgren is the only one that's even a mild surprise - I'm sure someone on this forum will be very happy about that!
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Re: Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

Post by Brad »

wait... the Foo Fighters are in and the MC5 are not???

why do you even bother with this crap?
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bootsy
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Re: Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

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Happy for Kraftwerk, Scott-Heron, and James Todd, it's just too bad they had to get in with this poverty prize.
Last edited by bootsy on Thu May 13, 2021 9:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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ordinaryperson
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Re: Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

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Nassim wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 8:37 pm LL Cool J will get and "Award in Musical Influence" and so will Randy Rhoads and Billy Preston.
Kraftwerk, Gil-Scott Heron and Charley Patton are joining the "early influence" aisle.
What a pittance!
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Henry
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Re: Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

Post by Henry »

Jackson wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 8:47 pm That is about as bland as the inductees could have been out of the finalists. No Kate Bush, Fela Kuti, Iron Maiden, etc.

Todd Rundgren is the only one that's even a mild surprise - I'm sure someone on this forum will be very happy about that!
Nice to see Todd make the Hall of Fame in Cleveland at such an early age :-)

Now it may be time for some more respect on the AM Forum :-)
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Re: Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

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Rob
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Re: Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees

Post by Rob »

The handling LL Cool J, Gil-Scott Heron and Kraftwerk is embarrassing indeed. The inductees themselves are mostly fine though. I only don't see the urgency for the induction of The Go-Go's and I'd rather had see the Hall acknowledge the support of Fela Kuti or go with the lasting influence of Kate Bush (makes you wonder, would Kate Bush have been an early inductee if this was a European organization?). I don't care for the Foo Fighters at all, but I know they are seen as a top tier rock group for a generation, although on that regard I think Iron Maiden should have come first, as they have been neglected too long.
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