Superhero Movie Poll, Discussion Thread!

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Holden
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Superhero Movie Poll, Discussion Thread!

Post by Holden »

I have moved this thread! You don't have to transfer lists, but you can if you'd like!
Last edited by Holden on Mon May 17, 2021 3:03 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Superhero Movie Poll, List Thread!

Post by Live in Phoenix »

I assume that eligible characters include someone who dates back to a medium like comic strips or radio, before the debut of Superman and before comic books became a stronger medium, like the Dick Tracy character. On the flip-side of things, there are some movies like The Crow, The Mask, Blade, or Ghost World, which can be included as long as people are aware they were originally comic books.
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Re: Superhero Movie Poll, List Thread!

Post by Schüttelbirne »

Comic book movies would include something like Persepolis which I would certainly not put on a superhero list.

At the risk of sounding pedantic: What defines a superhero? Normally I would say it is a human being (though that may be debatable, because I'm not sure how the Terminator classifies) with special abilities (from the phantastical realm, including Science-Fiction) who has to go through adventures in the classic fashion of Arthurian romance.
But does something like RoboCop count? What about 'supervillains' like in Split (I'm assuming Unbreakable will definitely be eligible)? Do they have to wear costumes? Do the supernatural abilities in some Asian martial arts movies (like House of Flying Daggers or Kung Fu Hustle) make them superhero movies?

I am genuinely asking, because I'm a bit flustered regarding the specifications.


And just to make things clear: There are superhero movies I like, I don't generally oppose them (and I still think 39% isn't that bad for a ranked poll).
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Re: Superhero Movie Poll, List Thread!

Post by Live in Phoenix »

I'd be just as happy leaving off Robocop (not to say it's a bad film, but I've never thought of it as a superhero flick). Obviously someone like Dick Tracy is not a superhero, but he's very much a comic book or comic strip type character. His first comic book appearance still predates Superman actually, back when comic books reprinted or resembled newspaper strips.

Wikipedia:
A superhero film (or superhero movie) is a film that focuses on the actions of superheroes: individuals who usually possess extraordinary – generally superhuman – abilities and are dedicated to protecting the public. These films typically feature action, adventure, fantasy or science fiction elements, with the first film of a particular character often including a focus on the origin of their special powers and their first confrontation with their most famous supervillain or archenemy.

Most superhero films are based on superhero comics. By contrast, several films such as the RoboCop series, The Meteor Man, the Unbreakable film series, The Incredibles, Hancock and They Call Me Jeeg are original for the screen, while The Green Hornet is based primarily on the original radio series and its 1960s television adaptation, both Underdog and The Powerpuff Girls are based on animated television series, and Japanese tokusatsu and anime superhero films are based on manga and television shows.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... _on_comics
Comic book films

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... blications
Marvel films

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... blications
DC films

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... blications
Dark Horse films

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... hero_films
Non-Marvel, non-DC American superhero films
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Re: Superhero Movie Poll, List Thread!

Post by Live in Phoenix »

Do the supernatural abilities in some Asian martial arts movies (like House of Flying Daggers or Kung Fu Hustle) make them superhero movies?
It's not super-obvious where the break between fantasy and comic book/superhero needs to be, but if we include every super ability movie, things are going to get weird and we'll have Star Wars, Peter Pan, and the Lord of the Rings showing up. Usually I think of the threat in a comic book/superhero story as being constant, basically infinite, almost mundane, whereas fantasy I think typically has one terrible villain whose defeat or demise will bring everyone to a happily-ever-after state.
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Re: Superhero Movie Poll, List Thread!

Post by mjf314 »

The Incredibles (2004)
Dredd (2012)
Kick-Ass (2010)
The Heroic Trio (1993)
Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse (2018)
Big Hero 6 (2014)
X-Men: Days of Future Past (2014)
Guardians of the Galaxy (2014)
Batman: Mask of the Phantasm (1993)
Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker (2000)
Black Panther (2018)

Are mini-series eligible? If not, I'll remove Dr. Horrible from my list.
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Re: Superhero Movie Poll, List Thread!

Post by Michel »

1. The Incredibles
2. Logan
3. The Green Hornet
4. Incredibles 2
5. Kick-Ass
6. Watchmen
7. Spider-Man 2
8. Hellboy II: The Golden Army
9. Iron Man
10. Unbreakable
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Re: Superhero Movie Poll, List Thread!

Post by mjf314 »

Schüttelbirne wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:10 pm At the risk of sounding pedantic: What defines a superhero? Normally I would say it is a human being (though that may be debatable, because I'm not sure how the Terminator classifies) with special abilities (from the phantastical realm, including Science-Fiction) who has to go through adventures in the classic fashion of Arthurian romance.
But does something like RoboCop count? What about 'supervillains' like in Split (I'm assuming Unbreakable will definitely be eligible)? Do they have to wear costumes? Do the supernatural abilities in some Asian martial arts movies (like House of Flying Daggers or Kung Fu Hustle) make them superhero movies?
I think a superhero should have superhuman abilities (but not necessarily supernatural, so Batman would count). They also protect the public. They usually wear costumes, but I'm not sure if it should be a requirement.

I haven't seen Unbreakable or Robocop. I know that most people consider Unbreakable a superhero movie. Robocop is usually not included on "best superhero movies" lists. On the other hand, Dredd is often included on such lists. I guess the biggest difference between these two characters is that Robocop is a robot, so maybe people don't consider robots to be superheroes.

I would say no for Terminator, because he doesn't protect the public.

It's been a long time since I watched House of Flying Daggers and Kung Fu Hustle, but I don't remember any characters who protect the public.

I think HK movie The Heroic Trio definitely counts, because the characters wear costumes and protect the public. Maybe Once Upon a Time in China should count as well, but I'm not sure. The main character protects the public, but he doesn't wear a costume.
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Re: Superhero Movie Poll, List Thread!

Post by Rocky Raccoon »

mjf314 wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 8:36 pm
Schüttelbirne wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:10 pm At the risk of sounding pedantic: What defines a superhero? Normally I would say it is a human being (though that may be debatable, because I'm not sure how the Terminator classifies) with special abilities (from the phantastical realm, including Science-Fiction) who has to go through adventures in the classic fashion of Arthurian romance.
But does something like RoboCop count? What about 'supervillains' like in Split (I'm assuming Unbreakable will definitely be eligible)? Do they have to wear costumes? Do the supernatural abilities in some Asian martial arts movies (like House of Flying Daggers or Kung Fu Hustle) make them superhero movies?
I think a superhero should have superhuman abilities (but not necessarily supernatural, so Batman would count). They also protect the public. They usually wear costumes, but I'm not sure if it should be a requirement.

I would say no for Terminator, because he doesn't protect the public.
What do you mean Terminator doesn't protect the public? In T2 he helped stop a nuclear holocaust. If that's not protecting the public, I don't know what is.

Ok, I'm just joking about that, because I don't think Terminator should count either.

I actually like the costume requirement, because it narrows this thing down to manageable proportions and reflects what most people think of as actual "superheroes." As with all things, though, there may be some exceptions.
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Re: Superhero Movie Poll, List Thread!

Post by mjf314 »

When I said that, I was thinking of the first Terminator film. I'm not sure about T2. I don't remember it well.

What about Hulk? He doesn't wear a costume (unless you count regular pants as a costume), but everyone considers him a superhero.
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Re: Superhero Movie Poll, List Thread!

Post by Holden »

Alright, some thoughts:

Okay, so I started this open endly on purpose to see what people thought about this. So here is what I've gained:

I think that the costume requirement is a good one. The film should have at least one human or human-resembling alien character that wears a distinct costume, and that person must have superpowers, or be capable of amazing feats through wealth or intelligence. However, there might be exceptions to this, but I think its a pretty good line.

Robots need not apply, though obviously having robots doesn't exclude anything if it meets the other criteria, so no RoboCop or Terminator. I'm also going to say that existing within the cinematic universe of a film that meets this criteria also allows participation, so that would be a yes for Split, since Unbreakable fits this criteria.

Also, fantasy films really shouldn't count. No Lord of the Rings or anything of the sort, as they are fantasy first. I'm going to say as well that superpowers alone are not really enough, as I don't think that martial arts films should be included.

Additionally, I'm going to say that 'protecting the public,' though it is a good point, isn't a requirement, because it leaves out satire or subversive films that are clearly meant to be a take on the superhero genre, as I think those belong. (The film that comes to mind is Brightburn, but doubt that film will do well, but I think its a good example).
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Re: Superhero Movie Poll, List Thread!

Post by Holden »

mjf314 wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 5:37 am The Incredibles (2004)
Dredd (2012)
Kick-Ass (2010)
The Heroic Trio (1993)
Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog (2008)
Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse (2018)
Big Hero 6 (2014)
X-Men: Days of Future Past (2014)
Guardians of the Galaxy (2014)
Batman: Mask of the Phantasm (1993)
Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker (2000)
Black Panther (2018)

Are mini-series eligible? If not, I'll remove Dr. Horrible from my list.
No mini-series, and unfortunately, as I love the film, I'm going to say no Dredd. I feel as though it is a science fiction film, and not really a superhero film.
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Re: Superhero Movie Poll, List Thread!

Post by Holden »

Alright, upon looking into it, I think that it might be a good idea to just go off of RateYourMusic's genres. Let me know what you think, but I feel like it would be easy and simple to say that if a movie hase "Superhero" as a main (bolded) genre on RYM, it is eligible, and otherwise not. This takes it out of my hands and feels fair to me.
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Re: Superhero Movie Poll, List Thread!

Post by Live in Phoenix »

Holden wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 3:29 am Alright, upon looking into it, I think that it might be a good idea to just go off of RateYourMusic's genres. Let me know what you think, but I feel like it would be easy and simple to say that if a movie hase "Superhero" as a main (bolded) genre on RYM, it is eligible, and otherwise not. This takes it out of my hands and feels fair to me.
That handles superhero films, but comic books (and comic book movies) are not exclusively superhero-oriented. Like Judge Dredd has been a comic book franchise from 1977 to the present day. But I can just go with superheroes if we're just doing that.
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Re: Superhero Movie Poll, List Thread!

Post by mjf314 »

Ok, I removed Dr. Horrible from my list.

I'm not sure what you mean about Dredd. I think he fits the definition of superhero very closely. He's a human who wears a costume, he has superhuman abilities, and he protects the public.

It seems that most people consider Dredd a superhero. All of the following lists include Dredd.

https://collider.com/top-50-superhero-m ... ime-50-46/
https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/g2471 ... /?slide=15
https://filmschoolrejects.com/51-best-s ... es-ever/2/
https://flightstightsandmovienights.com ... ro-movies/
https://www.gq.com/story/30-best-superhero-movies
https://www.ign.com/articles/the-25-bes ... ero-movies
https://www.looper.com/28206/best-superhero-movies/
https://www.pastemagazine.com/movies/su ... -all-time/
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Re: Superhero Movie Poll, List Thread!

Post by mjf314 »

Holden wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 3:29 am Alright, upon looking into it, I think that it might be a good idea to just go off of RateYourMusic's genres. Let me know what you think, but I feel like it would be easy and simple to say that if a movie hase "Superhero" as a main (bolded) genre on RYM, it is eligible, and otherwise not. This takes it out of my hands and feels fair to me.
If you use this rule, you'll have to exclude Guardians of the Galaxy, Chronicle, The Crow, and The Rocketeer, all of which are commonly considered superhero movies.

I think for any hard-to-define genre poll, it's best to just let the voters decide what counts (maybe give some guidelines, but let the voters have the final say). If not enough voters consider something a superhero movie, then it won't make the list.
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Re: Superhero Movie Poll, Discussion Thread!

Post by Live in Phoenix »

It looks like the emphasis is strongly on the superhero element, whereas a comic book can sort of be about anything. So, my list will include films that include a superhero typically defined as "customed, with superpowers, and regularly protects the public." Obviously, the definition can be stretched to include characters like Batman or the Punisher, who only have like a million comic books and movies to their name; in their case, they are still a customed hero who regularly protects the public. I would also include 1930s characters who work in a bizarre comic book world (Batman again, Dick Tracy, the Shadow, probably some pulp heroes). It doesn't hurt if you've had a comic book crossover with another superhero type (for instance, Batman and Judge Dredd).

For someone who really doesn't fit the admittedly rather stereotypical mold of superheroes and customed heroes, I'm at least inclined to put something like The Crow on my list similar to how people put Nirvana's unplugged album on their Nirvana lists -- i.e., I guess it doesn't belong, but here's where it would go.
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Re: Superhero Movie Poll, Discussion Thread!

Post by Jirin »

Superhero movies also tend to take place in present day, which separates them from fantasy and sci-fi movies.

Generally they involve somebody who was a normal person and later developed special abilities either through magic, science or technology. With a few exceptions of superheroes being aliens who blend in with humans.

I tend to like superhero films more the more they deviate from the formula. Guy gets powers, guy fights bad guy with powers, suffers a defeat to a more powerful bad guy, overcomes emotional barrier to defeat bad guy. I find it much more interesting when the characters have to make more difficult moral judgments than the usual black and white variety and when they do more worldbuilding and cultural commentary.

If you have a protecting public requirement you’re excluding Deadpool. But maybe you can include those kinds of exceptions by adjusting the criteria to something like “The main jeopardy of the story revolves around the protagonist using their powers to violently intervene in violent threats to somebody’s survival or freedom”.
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Re: Superhero Movie Poll, Discussion Thread!

Post by Live in Phoenix »

I wouldn't consider Joker a superhero movie, because there are no superheroes in it. Just a villain.

I don't think most people consider Men in Black or Ghost World a superhero movie, but I haven't seen them, so I can't be sure.

The Lego Movie has superheroes in it, but if I remember correctly, they're not the main characters. I guess it's ok to include it, but it's not as much a superhero movie as The Lego Batman Movie.
For what it's worth, I'd say that Joker (which I haven't seen) and Deadpool easily qualify. Deadpool is an anti-hero who stops terrible people in his two showcase films. Joker certainly isn't any kind of hero, but I just mean he counts in that he's part of the superhero world (compared to, like, counting singing cowboy Gene Autry because he used to have a comic book). It's been a little while since I saw The Lego Movie, but I think Batman was just in there as a gag. I think of Men in Black and Ghost World as comic book movies, but not superhero movies. I'm reminded of when Wizard magazine did a list on the Top 50 Comic Book Movies Of All Time, and it had Ghost World and Men In Black (and the Crow, and Conan the Barbarian), but a comic book can be about pretty much anything.



Wizard / The 50 Top Comic Book Movies Of All Time
(This doesn't imply that they liked Batman & Robin, or Steel, etc. It meant that there were only about 50 comic book movies at the time, so they just ranked them all.)
50. Batman & Robin [1997]./ 49. Steel [1997]./ 48. Red Sonja [1985]./ 47. Virus [1999]./ 46. Fantastic Four [1994]./ 45. Superman IV: The Quest For Peace [1987]./ 44. Conan The Destroyer [1984]./ 43. Captain America [1991]./ 42. Tank Girl [1995]./ 41. Supergirl [1984].

40. The Crow 2: City Of Angels [1996]./ 39. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Secret Of The Ooze [1991]./ 38. The Crow 3: Salvation [2000]./ 37. Superman III [1983]./ 36. Batman Forever [1995]./ 35. Barb Wire [1996]./ 34. Judge Dredd [1995]./ 33. Return Of Swamp Thing [1989]./ 32. Bulletproof Monk [2003]./ 31. Men In Black II [2002].

30. Spawn [1997]./ 29. The Punisher [1989]./ 28. Howard The Duck [1986]./ 27. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III [1993]./ 26. Mystery Men [1999]./ 25. Batman Returns [1992]./ 24. Swamp Thing [1982]./ 23. Batman [1966]./ 22. Daredevil [2002]./ 21. Timecop [1994].

20. Conan The Barbarian [1982]./ 19. The Mask [1994]./ 18. Blade II [2002]./ 17. From Hell [2001]./ 16. American Splendor [2003]./ 15. The Crow [1994]./ 14. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles [1990]./ 13. Batman: Mask Of The Phantasm [1993]./ 12. Men In Black [1997]./ 11. Akira [1989].

10. Blade [1998]./ 9. Batman [1989]./ 8. The Rocketeer [1991]./ 7. Ghost World [2001]./ 6. X-Men [2000]./ 5. Road To Perdition [2002]./ 4. Superman [1978]./ 3. Superman II [1981]./ 2. Spider-Man [2002]./ 1. X2: X-Men United [2003].
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Re: Superhero Movie Poll, Discussion Thread!

Post by Live in Phoenix »

I'm ambivalent about The Crow. (Hell, I'm ambivalent about the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and I know they started as a comic book, and are like a remix of superhero tropes. I guess it's because of the heavy martial arts aspect.) I think of The Crow as something like an action fantasy film.
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Re: Superhero Movie Poll, Discussion Thread!

Post by Jirin »

If Joker is a superhero film so is Taxi Driver.

I would count TMNT because they check all the boxes except blending in. I think we just don’t think of it that way cause it’s original audience was younger.

By that logic Power Rangers is also on the table.
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Re: Superhero Movie Poll, Discussion Thread!

Post by mjf314 »

Live in Phoenix wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 10:27 pm Joker certainly isn't any kind of hero, but I just mean he counts in that he's part of the superhero world (compared to, like, counting singing cowboy Gene Autry because he used to have a comic book).
There's nothing in the movie that makes it feel like a superhero world. If they changed the name Joker, and the name of the city, I wouldn't have known that the movie had anything to do with Batman.
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Re: Superhero Movie Poll, Discussion Thread!

Post by mileswide »

For me, what it boils down to is whether we want this to be solely a superhero movie poll or one that includes comic book adaptations as well. I was under the impression it was the latter as comic book films were being discussed as potentially eligible.

I'll get rid of The LEGO Movie for now- I wasn't really thinking when I added it, I'd just seen it on the Paste list posted in this thread while looking to jog my memory of what movies I'd seen. If I'd kept it, it'd be no different from calling The Simpsons a superhero show in the episodes that feature Radioactive Man.
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